BMW i4 M50 overheats with restricted power and charging during 1000 km challenge

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edyvw said:
Yes.
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Is this a stranger things reference? I missed the current season.

I know about them because a good friend of mine worked at D.E.C and replaced all the mechanical computers with VAX. (and just about every dam in the United States. Guys got a lot of stories.
 
UncleDave said:
Subsidies people don't personally like are "government conspiracy." The same guys remain utterly silent on other subsidies that are often larger more damaging because they benefit from them, or happen to like them.

The only reason you can go buy any other car is because of "my dime" otherwise these companies wouldn't exist.
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Solar subsidies are not a "conspiracy". They're simply a waste of taxpayer money, that could be spent on things far more worthwhile. And as I said, if a company can't pedal it's goods based on the marketability and merit of said goods, then perhaps it's better if those companies didn't exist.

Because it's an endless waste of money to try keep them afloat. That's how a capitalistic society works. No one said it was "fair", or had to be.
 
edyvw said:
I see where you going.

I agree. Not sure what are incentives in new bill for storage?
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Haven't checked, I know there is some verbiage in it that addresses nuclear, but it wasn't as generous there as some of us would have liked. IMHO, these sort of bills should require heavy consultation with the grid operators (not VRE advocates) to determine what the best mix looks like or what they need support on.
 
billt460 said:
Solar subsidies are not a "conspiracy". They're simply a waste of taxpayer money, that could be spent on things far more worthwhile. And as I said, if a company can't pedal it's goods based on the marketability and merit of said goods, then perhaps it's better if those companies didn't exist.

Because it's an endless waste of money to try keep them afloat. That's how a capitalistic society works. No one said it was "fair", or had to be.
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The same thing could be said for the US auto industry.

Why is Ford or GM more important to keep alive than Tesla? It's been an endless waste of money to keep them afloat.

What you categorize as a waste I see as a step toward independence from 3rd parties and Foreign governments.

Right now the power and water company can hand you any bill they see fit and you are forced to pay it.

Id rather not be PG&E's "gimp".
 
billt460 said:
Solar subsidies are not a "conspiracy". They're simply a waste of taxpayer money, that could be spent on things far more worthwhile. And as I said, if a company can't pedal it's goods based on the marketability and merit of said goods, then perhaps it's better if those companies didn't exist.

Because it's an endless waste of money to try keep them afloat. That's how a capitalistic society works. No one said it was "fair", or had to be.
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Half of southeast and many other parts of the US would not have electricity if there wasn’t government subsidies. If you go back you would find numerous policymakers arguing that TVA was waste of money and other things.
99.99% of the US population didn’t know they need internet. Only reason you have it is government subsidies. Eventually, this slowly moves into private enterprise.
 
OVERKILL said:
Haven't checked, I know there is some verbiage in it that addresses nuclear, but it wasn't as generous there as some of us would have liked. IMHO, these sort of bills should require heavy consultation with the grid operators (not VRE advocates) to determine what the best mix looks like or what they need support on.
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I agree on that. BUT, as former political consultant, I can tell you that it is not that that doesn’t work that way, but that it is really complicated balancing between real facts and needs and peoples “feelings.” And “feelings “ vote.
This is politics, and politics is simple: who gets what, when and how.
 
UncleDave said:
Is this a stranger things reference? I missed the current season.

I know about them because a good friend of mine worked at D.E.C and replaced all the mechanical computers with VAX. (and just about every dam in the United States. Guys got a lot of stories.
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My reference is to origination of TVA. It was government project that many argued won’t work and many didn’t want it to work bcs. various reasons (let’s not go there).
Southeast would never develop that infrastructure based on “demand.”
 
edyvw said:
My reference is to origination of TVA. It was government project that many argued won’t work and many didn’t want it to work bcs. various reasons (let’s not go there).
Southeast would never develop that infrastructure based on “demand.”
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ahh got it thanks.
 
edyvw said:
I agree on that. BUT, as former political consultant, I can tell you that it is not that that doesn’t work that way, but that it is really complicated balancing between real facts and needs and peoples “feelings.” And “feelings “ vote.
This is politics, and politics is simple: who gets what, when and how.
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Oh yes, I'm intimately aware. We had a huge number of city counsels sign on to a motion put forward by one of our more nutter-geared NGO's to eliminate gas from our generation mix. Of course, if that was done, the grid would collapse regularly. It was all about those optics and "feelings" and feasibility didn't weigh-in at all, despite some fantastic (Peter Pan would blush) claims by this same organization.
 
OVERKILL said:
Oh yes, I'm intimately aware. We had a huge number of city counsels sign on to a motion put forward by one of our more nutter-geared NGO's to eliminate gas from our generation mix. Of course, if that was done, the grid would collapse regularly. It was all about those optics and "feelings" and feasibility didn't weigh-in at all, despite some fantastic (Peter Pan would blush) claims by this same organization.
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I am now on a research side of politics, but this became amplified by social media. And biggest issue are baby boomers. Older the generation, easier to sell BS to.
No offense to anyone.
 
UncleDave said:
The same thing could be said for the US auto industry. Why is Ford or GM more important to keep alive than Tesla? It's been an endless waste of money to keep them afloat.
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They weren't. And they're not. Neither GM or Ford would have gone under without government loans. They would have instead been forced to close divisions, and slash and burn across the board. And lay off tens of thousands of workers. Who then would have gone on government unemployment, Medicaid, Welfare, name it.

As Lee Iacocca said, "You can pay me now, or pay them later". It was actually cheaper to loan him the money to get Chrysler rolling again, than to shut the doors, putting them all out of work, and Chrysler out of business. Ford and GM were in financial trouble, but would not have gone under.

And all 3 paid back a large portion of the money they were given... But not all.

Tesla was no such starving animal. The government likes the idea of, "green energy". Even though EV's are anything but "green". All the money the government threw at Tesla, was to get it up, and keep it running, because they had a love fest with their product.

Much like the money they wasted on Solyndra. The only salvation was Tesla didn't go broke. Solyndra did.... And they were told they would even BEFORE they gave them a penny. The did it anyway, because the progressive administration that was in power at the time, were all slobbering over their "green" agenda.

All this nonsense was simply the government trying to promote a "greener" form of energy. It was and is all bogus. The government is promoting its own agenda with Tesla. Which is why they're so eager to pour money into it.

With the big 3, they were simply trying to minimize the financial hemorrhaging. GM and Ford would have survived without government money. Chrysler and Tesla would not have.
 
edyvw said:
Half of southeast and many other parts of the US would not have electricity if there wasn’t government subsidies. If you go back you would find numerous policymakers arguing that TVA was waste of money and other things.
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Trying to compare government subsidies for solar panels, to the Colorado River dam projects, or the TVA is not only ridiculous, it's plain stupid on steroids.

Both of those projects have generated the value it cost to build them many times over in electrical power, and water distribution. While solar subsidies are a total flop, and a complete waste of money. That continues to bleed the taxpayer on a never ending basis.

As I said, you just watch how few of these "solar companies" survive on their own after the government money stops flowing. Estimates say as many as 95% of them will go broke. Many have already.

And the bulk of them are unscrupulous, and are just in it for the quick buck. Solar subsidies attract scammers. And the solar industry is awash with them. This is just the tip of the iceberg. And you seriously want to compare this to Hoover Dam and the TVA? Quit while you're behind.

https://www.totalsolarsolutions.com.au/blog/news/why-do-so-many-solar-companies-file-for-bankruptcy/
 
billt460 said:
They weren't. And they're not. Neither GM or Ford would have gone under without government loans. They would have instead been forced to close divisions, and slash and burn across the board. And lay off tens of thousands of workers. Who then would have gone on government unemployment, Medicaid, Welfare, name it.

As Lee Iacocca said, "You can pay me now, or pay them later". It was actually cheaper to loan him the money to get Chrysler rolling again, than to shut the doors, putting them all out of work, and Chrysler out of business. Ford and GM were in financial trouble, but would not have gone under.

And all 3 paid back a large portion of the money they were given... But not all.

Tesla was no such starving animal. The government likes the idea of, "green energy". Even though EV's are anything but "green". All the money the government threw at Tesla, was to get it up, and keep it running, because they had a love fest with their product.

Much like the money they wasted on Solyndra. The only salvation was Tesla didn't go broke. Solyndra did.... And they were told they would even BEFORE they gave them a penny. The did it anyway, because the progressive administration that was in power at the time, were all slobbering over their "green" agenda.

All this nonsense was simply the government trying to promote a "greener" form of energy. It was and is all bogus. The government is promoting its own agenda with Tesla. Which is why they're so eager to pour money into it.

With the big 3, they were simply trying to minimize the financial hemorrhaging. GM and Ford would have survived without government money. Chrysler and Tesla would not have.
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I could care less about "green." Makes me a bad guy I know.
Although I avoid being wasteful of anything, green only works for me when its good business.

I have my own agenda - independence from gov or energy companies.
imagine if you found out that you had a small but workable oil well with an onsite refinery to cover your own needs.
Thats what solar is to me - my own power company, oil well and refinery all on my own property, and when batteries get cheap enough - I disconnect from the grid completely and dont need gas stations for local driving.


GM did go under - after the taking money for decades hosing all the investors, but bouncing right back with our money.
Ford still owes us billions.
Stellantis took the money then filed.
There are dozens of panel companies - solyndra was just one and I agree we shouldn't have given them a nickel.
Our dimes covered all this folly.
 
UncleDave said:
I could care less about "green." Makes me a bad guy I know.
Although I avoid being wasteful of anything, green only works for me when its good business.

I have my own agenda - independence from gov or energy companies.
imagine if you found out that you had a small but workable oil well with an onsite refinery to cover your own needs.
Thats what solar is to me - my own power company, oil well and refinery all on my own property, and when batteries get cheap enough - I disconnect from the grid completely and dont need gas stations for local driving.


GM did go under - after the taking money for decades hosing all the investors, but bouncing right back with our money.
Ford still owes us billions.
Stellantis took the money then filed.
There are dozens of panel companies - solyndra was just one and I agree we shouldn't have given them a nickel.
Our dimes covered all this folly.
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The problem with companies like solyndra etc. is that no one ended up in prison.
Common people like our friend here don’t want government interference. I get that. Those with access, that argue that government is bad, actually love government. Government is like this never ending supply of money, for them. And if they get carried away, well there are always lawyers to get a “deal.”
After all that economic mayhem in 2007-2009 let’s not forget only two guys ended up in prison: Madoff, and some unlucky broker who actually admitted wrongdoing, instead of pleading 5th.
 
edyvw said:
The problem with companies like solyndra etc. is that no one ended up in prison.
Common people like our friend here don’t want government interference. I get that. Those with access, that argue that government is bad, actually love government. Government is like this never ending supply of money, for them. And if they get carried away, well there are always lawyers to get a “deal.”
After all that economic mayhem in 2007-2009 let’s not forget only two guys ended up in prison: Madoff, and some unlucky broker who actually admitted wrongdoing, instead of pleading 5th.
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No the problem with Solyndra is the exact same as it is with solar panel subsidies. Both were / are a complete waste of money.

Bernie Madoff? Jesus, now you're really reaching!
 
edyvw said:
The problem with companies like solyndra etc. is that no one ended up in prison.
Common people like our friend here don’t want government interference. I get that. Those with access, that argue that government is bad, actually love government. Government is like this never ending supply of money, for them. And if they get carried away, well there are always lawyers to get a “deal.”
After all that economic mayhem in 2007-2009 let’s not forget only two guys ended up in prison: Madoff, and some unlucky broker who actually admitted wrongdoing, instead of pleading 5th.
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Lots of poeple should have gone to jail in the sub prime scandal as well.

The BEV and Solar credits are a thimble in an ocean compared to 179 deductions and half ton trucks/ vehicles.
We (used to) basically subsidize the whole vehicle the year its bought.

Madoff was private robbery.
 
edyvw said:
No government subsidies have set success in plans.

And no, GM would not survive.
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Solar power has been a long term, expensive failure for the American taxpayer. That has only managed to achieve a 3.2% "success" in over half a century. That's a plan alright... A plan for an expensive disaster. And it has played out.

And you're wrong. GM would have survived. In the absence of a bailout, GM would each have been forced to file for bankruptcy like any other company in their circumstances.
 
billt460 said:
Solar power has been a long term, expensive failure for the American taxpayer. That has only managed to achieve a 3.2% "success" in over half a century. That's a plan alright... A plan for an expensive disaster. And it has played out.

And you're wrong. GM would have survived. In the absence of a bailout, GM would each have been forced to file for bankruptcy like any other company in their circumstances.
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We need a solar thread. Solar is a distraction from the thread, but always an interesting debate.

One could easily build a case to support success or failure when they get to pick the metrics.
 
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