BMW i4 M50 overheats with restricted power and charging during 1000 km challenge

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In fact, over time the answer will be soundly, "yes" we will not have a choice. I don't give away inside information on this forum due to my job and position. But you should know that the push for electrification is not simply "strong incentives". Things are happening that require engine manufacturing to be shut down. And there will be a strong legal push to hold petroleum manufacturers liable for GW. Again, in a decade, we will not have any viable choices other than EV.

It's also good to know that there are tasks EV's will never be able to do. Transport aircraft is example number 1. For that, hydrogen or sustainable aviation fuels will be necessary. Battery energy density can not and will never match what fuels can do. Lithium is the most active metal for batteries and it has just so many ions to move. We can improve by making certain battery components smaller, (and/or eliminating them) but there won't be miracles in energy density.

Think back to fuel energy density. People used to believe that some fuel would be developed that contained twice the energy as diesel fuel. Engineers knew better, but the general public still thought some super-fuel would come about. So it is with batteries. The fuels we have today are well refined and capable. They are not more energy dense than during WW-1 or WW-II. Batteries are no different.
Push for EV will depend on politics!!! That is it. Just because there might be a strong push now, doesn’t mean if policymakers overreach, there won’t be a correction.
Ultimately, serious push will happen when EV’s reach practically of ICE. But, at that point simple economics are going to win.
Only one thing is constant in life, a change.
 
In fact, over time the answer will be soundly, "yes" we will not have a choice. I don't give away inside information on this forum due to my job and position. But you should know that the push for electrification is not simply "strong incentives". Things are happening that require engine manufacturing to be shut down. And there will be a strong legal push to hold petroleum manufacturers liable for GW. Again, in a decade, we will not have any viable choices other than EV.

It's also good to know that there are tasks EV's will never be able to do. Transport aircraft is example number 1. For that, hydrogen or sustainable aviation fuels will be necessary. Battery energy density can not and will never match what fuels can do. Lithium is the most active metal for batteries and it has just so many ions to move. We can improve by making certain battery components smaller, (and/or eliminating them) but there won't be miracles in energy density.

Think back to fuel energy density. People used to believe that some fuel would be developed that contained twice the energy as diesel fuel. Engineers knew better, but the general public still thought some super-fuel would come about. So it is with batteries. The fuels we have today are well refined and capable. They are not more energy dense than during WW-1 or WW-II. Batteries are no different.


I get the sense that travel is going to be very expensive in the coming future. That’s all part of the plan too.
 
This thread nicely highlights the advantages of residential solar panels. One thing we've failed to touch on is the fact that wind/solar intermittency requires fast response back up generators to maintain grid power.

The problem is that in many locations, no fuel burning is offset by solar and wind. As the peaker plants are inefficient as hell. You save money personally, that is all. Doubling down won't help either.
I am always a believer that solar should be build to match the AC need on the grid, maybe use ice storage to shift against duck curve. However I don't think solar should be used to offset fossil or nuke as you said, and cost comparison wise should only be compare against the fuel or variable cost part of the fossil / nuke because you still need to keep them around "just in case".
 
I dont think its a matter of a heat pump or not, but more one of proportional valving between the two areas requiring cooling and battery type.

I think teslas octovalve thing comes into play In that it can proportion the cooling between the cabin and battery better
It seems that large pouch/prism cells have cooling issues and that they are looking to switch to cylinder batteries.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...cylindrical-battery-cells-next-generation-evs
That would be a big change, they have a LOT invested in prismatic....
 
I wonder if this is similar to the Ford Mach-E power issues?
Tesla is far ahead of everyone in EV development; clearly their engineering is superior.
The big boys will still have their loyalists to bouy them up, but real world use is showing companies like GM, Ford, Porsche Audi and BMW are having EV related problems.
The acceleration power limit issue seems to be mostly restricted to pouch-cell cars. Both Ford and Porsche do this, I assume we'll see GM do it too. The i4 will give you all the ponies, not just for 10 seconds, but it does of course have thermal constraints which Bjorn was able to expose here. Quite similar to the thermal castration mechanism we see on the Mustang GT (gas car) when it was tracked, oil temperature triggered it.
 
This thread nicely highlights the advantages of residential solar panels. One thing we've failed to touch on is the fact that wind/solar intermittency requires fast response back up generators to maintain grid power.

The problem is that in many locations, no fuel burning is offset by solar and wind. As the peaker plants are inefficient as hell. You save money personally, that is all. Doubling down won't help either.
Correct, and this drives up the cost for everyone else, because somebody has to pay for those peakers...
 
I get the sense that travel is going to be very expensive in the coming future. That’s all part of the plan too.
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Think back to fuel energy density. People used to believe that some fuel would be developed that contained twice the energy as diesel fuel. Engineers knew better, but the general public still thought some super-fuel would come about. So it is with batteries. The fuels we have today are well refined and capable. They are not more energy dense than during WW-1 or WW-II. Batteries are no different.

This brings to mind Jimmy Carter's whole pie in the sky, "Synthetic Fuels Program"..... Which, as we all know, never went anywhere, because there was nowhere for it to go. But many bought into the idea. And thought, much like this, that it was, "just around the corner".

Mostly because they believed him when he told everyone on national television we would "run out of oil" by 2011. So, we had to do something fast!

This whole thing parallels that type of, "the sky is falling" mentality surrounding the entire climate change fiasco. Which is what's driving this runaway train.
 
Roof orientation. Type of roof, cost, state utilities dictating whether compensation for excess power is available (Utilities looking to deter rooftop arrays), HOA's. cost of power itself, etc.
You know what, you bring up an excellent point.... That further proves mine. If only 20% of this entire country can possibly benefit from solar panels on rooftops, after 50 years of their existence, why is the government pushing this like there is no tomorrow? It makes zero economic sense for them to be throwing so much taxpayer money down this dry hole, that so few can benefit from.

Sure, they can push for "new laws", and mandate this or that in order to slightly expand on it. (Much like California is trying to ram solar down their citizens throats). All in a misguided effort to up its use somewhat.

But it's NEVER going to be a viable solution for well over half of homeowners in this country. Even if 80% are at least somewhat suitable to get any good out of it. Assuming you could ever convince them of it from a economic standpoint.

This whole EV craze the government is pushing, is going down that same exact road. They're desperately trying to force these things on to people who can't use them, (i.e, everyone). If you want it, and have a home that could possibly benefit from solar, then fine, go buy it..... On your dime.

It's the same for EV's. If you think by having one as a second car will work out for you as a grocery getter, or to offset your 7 minute commute to work, fine. Again, go purchase one, on your dime. Not the governments. None of this appears to be about, "clean energy". It's all about control.

Granted, this link is from one of those, "solar is wonderful" outfits, but it does bring up some good points.

https://blog.solstice.us/solstice-blog/why-americans-cant-access-rooftop-solar/
 
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Eh, that's a more complicated discussion. The Duck Curve is a real issue, I assume you didn't install big battery packs to buffer the morning and evening ramps?
Of course it is complicated issue. If it was simple, we wouldn’t have all the drama in TX etc.
No, I didn’t go batteries.
 
Of course it is complicated issue. If it was simple, we wouldn’t have all the drama in TX etc.
No, I didn’t go batteries.
OK, let me know if you'd like to discuss the issue then ;)

Are you familiar with the term Capacity Value? it's a very important metric that determines the usefulness of a given generator in a system.
 
OK, let me know if you'd like to discuss the issue then ;)

Are you familiar with the term Capacity Value? it's a very important metric that determines the usefulness of a given generator in a system.
Nope, I am not electric engineer. However, I am not arguing this is replacement to nuclear generation etc.
 
That's only 83f! We have a long way to go before electric cars will be dependable for everyone. What's one going to do in Phoenix or Vegas or needles?

Most are completely fine in hot weather. Check out the tesla forums.
 
Nope, I am not electric engineer. However, I am not arguing this is replacement to nuclear generation etc.
I understand that, but a bit of knowledge never hurt anyone :)

Ultra-short abbreviated version:
Solar has high capacity value during the day at low levels of penetration in a given grid, because it displaces peaking capacity, however, this produces morning/evening ramps where solar isn't yet contributing/contributing significantly or its contribution is waning.

As you add more and more solar, its capacity value begins to plummet because these ramping requirements offset that value. It can get worse still when solar capacity starts eating into baseload, which is doubly bad if that baseload is clean hydro or nuclear, both of which have lower lifecycle emissions than solar.

To bring back capacity value, you have to add storage. So, while adding say 20MW of solar into an already peaking-covered grid would have a capacity value of near zero, if you add it with say 6 hours of storage to cover those ramps, its capacity value is considerably higher, but then so is the cost.

That's why I've said that solar installation capacity should be capped at a level that just displaces peakers and can be complimented with moderate levels of storage (preferably PHES, not batteries) when paired with low emissions baseload like nuclear and hydro, that creates the "best case" scenario and should be the lowest cost.
 
You know what, you bring up an excellent point.... That further proves mine. If only 20% of this entire country can possibly benefit from solar panels on rooftops, after 50 years of their existence, why is the government pushing this like there is no tomorrow? It makes zero economic sense for them to be throwing so much taxpayer money down this dry hole, that so few can benefit from.

Sure, they can push for "new laws", and mandate this or that in order to slightly expand on it. (Much like California is trying to ram solar down their citizens throats). All in a misguided effort to up its use somewhat.

But it's NEVER going to be a viable solution for well over half of homeowners in this country. Even if 80% are at least somewhat suitable to get any good out of it. Assuming you could ever convince them of it from a economic standpoint.

This whole EV craze the government is pushing, is going down that same exact road. They're desperately trying to force these things on to people who can't use them, (i.e, everyone). If you want it, and have a home that could possibly benefit from solar, then fine, go buy it..... On your dime.

It's the same for EV's. If you think by having one as a second car will work out for you as a grocery getter, or to offset your 7 minute commute to work, fine. Again, go purchase one, on your dime. Not the governments. None of this appears to be about, "clean energy". It's all about control.

Granted, this link is from one of those, "solar is wonderful" outfits, but it does bring up some good points.

https://blog.solstice.us/solstice-blog/why-americans-cant-access-rooftop-solar/

Solar is expensive period, thats the main reason why more people don't have it.
The guys with the money have historically been able to beat the ROI elsewhere.


On subsidies in general:
Subsidies people don't personally like are "government conspiracy."
The same guys remain utterly silent on other subsidies that are often larger more damaging because they benefit from them, or happen to like them.

The only reason you can go buy any other car is because of "my dime" otherwise these companies wouldn't exist.
 
I understand that, but a bit of knowledge never hurt anyone :)

Ultra-short abbreviated version:
Solar has high capacity value during the day at low levels of penetration in a given grid, because it displaces peaking capacity, however, this produces morning/evening ramps where solar isn't yet contributing/contributing significantly or its contribution is waning.

As you add more and more solar, its capacity value begins to plummet because these ramping requirements offset that value. It can get worse still when solar capacity starts eating into baseload, which is doubly bad if that baseload is clean hydro or nuclear, both of which have lower lifecycle emissions than solar.

To bring back capacity value, you have to add storage. So, while adding say 20MW of solar into an already peaking-covered grid would have a capacity value of near zero, if you add it with say 6 hours of storage to cover those ramps, its capacity value is considerably higher, but then so is the cost.

That's why I've said that solar installation capacity should be capped at a level that just displaces peakers and can be complimented with moderate levels of storage (preferably PHES, not batteries) when paired with low emissions baseload like nuclear and hydro, that creates the "best case" scenario and should be the lowest cost.
I see where you going.

I agree. Not sure what are incentives in new bill for storage?
 
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