BMW i4 M50 overheats with restricted power and charging during 1000 km challenge

[loneryder]

Actually, solar panels are very durable and hail damage is rare. As you might imagine, weather conditions were included in development.
There are many articles that speak to wind and hail weather.
I believe mine are guaranteed up to 150 mph wind and hail damage; I would have to look it up. But this is one of the many questions I had before investing in a solar project.

I soubt you get hailstorms where you live.

 

[UncleDave]

It's not just BMW. This is the problem with these things in extreme temperatures. Be they hot or cold. When they build their "charging network" out here in the desert, they better provide plenty of motels to go along with them. (Especially if they think 83 degrees is "hot").

Although this particular vehicle demonstrated a problem. I don't share your view on them.
I was super skeptical in 2012 when I took my first trip in one.
After lots of experience I've come around.

I haven't seen any evidence that they (at least teslas) have a "problem" in hot climates as a rule.
I have boating friends in Havasu, Parker, Vegas, and Phoenix with no issues.
I've driven to Vegas from LA at 115, and Nor cal to so cal at 110 - no issues.
Check out the tesla forums for user in Phoenix and you will find they have few to no issues.

Some BEV's do way better than others in the heat, or cold- just like autos and heat.
Extreme heat lowers milage in all vehicles especially hybrids. The air cooled leaf was horrible.
The water cooled battery cars spend energy keeping themselves and the packs cool which reduces range - but an ice car running the Ac compressor the whole time reduces range and performance as well.

For in town use they are superior - you can have a pre cool or pre heated car with very little cost.
One example would be running out to grab a bite - you can keep the AC in the cabin going without an idling engine to feed and cool, head back home and plug in and not worry about fueling at all. Parker and Havasu will flash an interior to 140 in a heartbeat and having to cool down every short trip means you dont cool down.

I dont pretend they will replace pickups for towing, but for sedans and SUV's I prefer them now.

I consider myself a piston head with all kinds of powerful toys way beyond what most will ever have.
I love the sound smell and feel of a big block or turbo mill tearing through the gears.
These vehicles are impressive.

I always feel rage at the mere thought of being " managed" by government and detest being told what to do.
In the case of these being able to make my own fuel an be totally independent offsets this somewhat.

Indy mechanics like Trav and Cline have zero to worry about these cars becoming norm - they will have plenty of work to do till the end of time on these and the existing ice fleet.

 

[edyvw]

Although this particular vehicle demonstrated a problem. I don't share your view on them.
I was super skeptical in 2011 when I took my first trip in one.
After lots of experience I've come around.

I haven't seen any evidence that they (at least teslas) have a "problem" in hot climates as a rule.
I have boating friends in Havasu, Parker, Vegas, and Phoenix with no issues.
I've driven to Vegas from LA at 115, and Nor cal to so cal at 110 - no issues.
Check out the tesla forums for user in Phoenix and you will find they have few to no issues.

Some BEV's do way better than others in the heat, or cold- just like autos and heat.
Extreme heat lowers milage in all vehicles especially hybrids. The air cooled leaf was horrible.
The water cooled battery cars spend energy keeping themselves and the packs cool which reduces range - but an ice car running the Ac compressor the whole time reduces range and performance as well.

For in town use they are superior - you can have a pre cool or pre heated car with very little cost.
One example would be running out to grab a bite - you can keep the AC in the cabin going without an idling engine to feed and cool, head back home and plug in and not worry about fueling at all. Parker and Havasu will flash an interior to 140 in a heartbeat and having to cool down every short trip means you dont cool down.

I dont pretend they will replace pickups for towing, but for sedans and SUV's I prefer them now.

I consider myself a piston head with all kinds of powerful toys way beyond what most will ever have.
I love the sound smell and feel of a big block or turbo mill tearing through the gears.
These vehicles are impressive.

I always feel rage at the mere thought of being " managed" by government and detest being told what to do.
In the case of these being able to make my own fuel an be totally independent offsets this somewhat.

Indy mechanics like Trav and Cline have zero to worry about these cars becoming norm - they will have plenty of work to do till the end of time on these and the existing ice fleet.

I do agree here.
Extreme heat has impact on ALL vehicles. It reduces mpg in ICE too once AC is on. AC is greatest parasitic add on. People who for example modify road cars into track only vehicles take out all AC system as it is heavy, clumsy and use specific serpentine belts to go away with whole compressor assembly.
Heat lowers performance of ICE due to air density. Same goes for altitude, even more so, where EV’s are actually not affected. ICE is more susceptible to overheating at 10,000ft than EV!

 

[JeffKeryk]

Well then where the hell are they? Seriously. We've been screwing around with putting solar panels on houses in this country since 1973, 50 years ago. Yet today only 3.2% of single-family detached homes have installed solar panels. Residential solar also generates a smaller percentage of total US energy production, making up less than 1% of all energy production in 2021.

So........ These things are just so wonderful, that in half a century, less than 4% of the homes in the entire United States have them. And mind you that is only WITH literally billions of dollars of government money being continually pumped into this entire fiasco.

And 3.2% is the best they can come up with. And that is with modern improved output panels and all. That's not an "achievement", it a disaster. And it will become a total failure, just as soon as this idiotic government of ours comes to their senses, and stops pumping money they don't have into this gigantic, flea ridden dog.

If something is a great idea, that is bound to prosper, it doesn't require 50 years to establish a less than 4% foot hold in the marketplace. And can only achieve that dismal of a number, with literally billions in government subsidies being wasted on it.

Good points... Here's my experience, for what it's worth. Setting the scene, living in Silicon Valley I have known with people who have money to do things others cannot, or would not choose to due to budgeting constraints.
A neighbor of my parents spent a ton of money (1980s) to put up panels (that generated a small amount in comparison) because that's what they wanted to do. It could not have been wise financially.
Fast forward to 10 years ago; I started considering solar more seriously, but the prices were too high. Remember, I am a recovering alcoholic who used to walk the streets with nothing, going nowhere. I am an extreme fiscal conservative. Plus I know a little arithmetic, statistics, etc.
Next go to late 2017, I am in Costco and the Sunrun kiosk guy is talking to anyone who will listen. Being curious, I listened and kinda challenged him. So I agreed to let Sunrun give me a bid with some numbers, basically using 1 year of electric usage and bills. At his point, I live in a house that I am probably never gonna leave. Plus lets just say I now have disposable income...
Well, the numbers they come back with were compelling; a no brainer. So then I get all kinda bids. Plus a Federal income tax credit would be welcome; however I was not eligible for the CA benefit.
In March 2018 Infinity Solar completed the project and PG&E made the switch. I now pay $0 to $15 per month to use the PG&E grid. Others pay maybe $120 to $350 per month for electricity, depending. And rates are only increasing.

My project was a 1 off. Compare that to say, doing an entire neighborhood at once. The economies of scale dictate project cost to be far less and the benefit far greater.
My goal was to minimize recurring costs going forward as I retired or if I died my wife would be set up as best as possible. The solar project has played a key role in completing this plan. I love my solar.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I soubt you get hailstorms where you live.

Not too many. We barely get rain. The few hailstorms last a minute or so...
But that doesn't mean solar panels cannot withstand the vast majority of hail storms. To make solar panels viable, engineers considered weather.
In my research prior to springing for solar, I asked a lotta questions. The solar companies told me weather questions, especially wind and hail, were the most asked.
In short, yes hail can damage solar panels, and most home insurance policies cover that damage. However, the chances of hail actually damaging panels is slim to none.

 

[4WD]

Good points... Here's my experience, for what it's worth. Setting the scene, living in Silicon Valley I have known with people who have money to do things others cannot, or would not choose to due to budgeting constraints.
A neighbor of my parents spent a ton of money (1980s) to put up panels (that generated a small amount in comparison) because that's what they wanted to do. It could not have been wise financially.
Fast forward to 10 years ago; I started considering solar more seriously, but the prices were too high. Remember, I am a recovering alcoholic who used to walk the streets with nothing, going nowhere. I am an extreme fiscal conservative. Plus I know a little arithmetic, statistics, etc.
Next go to late 2017, I am in Costco and the Sunrun kiosk guy is talking to anyone who will listen. Being curious, I listened and kinda challenged him. So I agreed to let Sunrun give me a bid with some numbers, basically using 1 year of electric usage and bills. At his point, I live in a house that I am probably never gonna leave. Plus lets just say I now have disposable income...
Well, the numbers they come back with were compelling; a no brainer. So then I get all kinda bids. Plus a Federal income tax credit would be welcome; however I was not eligible for the CA benefit.
In March 2018 Infinity Solar completed the project and PG&E made the switch. I now pay $0 to $15 per month to use the PG&E grid. Others pay maybe $120 to $350 per month for electricity, depending. And rates are only increasing.

My project was a 1 off. Compare that to say, doing an entire neighborhood at once. The economies of scale dictate project cost to be far less and the benefit far greater.
My goal was to minimize recurring costs going forward as I retired or if I died my wife would be set up as best as possible. The solar project has played a key role in completing this plan. I love my solar.

Did I miss it - or you did ? The “free tank of gas in the morning“ …

 

[JeffKeryk]

Did I miss it - or you did ? The “free tank of gas in the morning“ …

Yep. The Tesla accelerates the time to break even and then it's gravy. I bought the panels with the thought of maybe buying an EV one day; little did I know it would be 9 months later.

 

[Spyderman24_7]

Not too many. We barely get rain. The few hailstorms last a minute or so...
But that doesn't mean solar panels cannot withstand the vast majority of hail storms. To make solar panels viable, engineers considered weather.
In my research prior to springing for solar, I asked a lotta questions. The solar companies told me weather questions, especially wind and hail, were the most asked.
In short, yes hail can damage solar panels, and most home insurance policies cover that damage. However, the chances of hail actually damaging panels is slim to none.

Quick question... do the panels require any type of preventive maintenance as in cleaning any sort of oxidation, dust from low rainfall, etc. that would decrease efficiency? Everything involving the sun eventually is damaged to some extent.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Quick question... do the panels require any type of preventive maintenance as in cleaning any sort of oxidation, dust from low rainfall, etc. that would decrease efficiency? Everything involving the sun eventually is damaged to some extent.

Earlier this year a friend went up on the roof, hosed them off and used a litte car warsh detergent. I don't know if it did anything. Of course, rain cleans them.

 

[UncleDave]

Quick question... do the panels require any type of preventive maintenance as in cleaning any sort of oxidation, dust from low rainfall, etc. that would decrease efficiency? Everything involving the sun eventually is damaged to some extent.

Mostly dirt.
You can usually catch degradation its mild.
I spray them from the ground with a pressure washer like a car, soap run, rinse run.
degradation is pretty good now, they have warranties like tires.

The sun cooks them for sure.
They start sliding downhill at 20 years and most are down a significant % at 25.
Most guys get an ROI from 5-7 years and the package is good for about 100K of over 25 years.

The money curve on these looks like this for me.

 

[JeffKeryk]

One question to ask yourself is, do you think energy costs are going up, down or staying the same. In business we buy hedge accounts especially for currency conversion. To me, the solar was a hedge against future costs. And as I have said, a poke at PG&E. I hate them.

 

[4WD]

One question to ask yourself is, do you think energy costs are going up, down or staying the same. In business we buy hedge accounts especially for currency conversion. To me, the solar was a hedge against future costs. And as I have said, a poke at PG&E. I hate them.

I assumed upward and took a two year fixed rate plan …

 

[edyvw]

Quick question... do the panels require any type of preventive maintenance as in cleaning any sort of oxidation, dust from low rainfall, etc. that would decrease efficiency? Everything involving the sun eventually is damaged to some extent.

Big thing is critter protection!

 

[Cujet]

This thread nicely highlights the advantages of residential solar panels. One thing we've failed to touch on is the fact that wind/solar intermittency requires fast response back up generators to maintain grid power.

The problem is that in many locations, no fuel burning is offset by solar and wind. As the peaker plants are inefficient as hell. You save money personally, that is all. Doubling down won't help either.

 

[wpod]

So this thing drives 620 miles on $66? At todays prices that is an improvement but at last years fuel prices that is not great. I still think this electric car adaption is a huge error in human history.

We need to follow the money on the electric cars shoved down our throats.

 

[wpod]

But we are saving the Earth like we saved Blue Chip stamps.

 

[UncleDave]

We need to follow the money on the electric cars shoved down our throats.

We sure do.

I'm all for keeping an eye on the money.

I can tell you we aren't building artificial islands , ski slopes in the desert , and half mile high buildings in the US.

 

[edyvw]

We need to follow the money on the electric cars shoved down our throats.

Hmm, so someone is making you buy EV?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Well then where the hell are they? Seriously. We've been screwing around with putting solar panels on houses in this country since 1973, 50 years ago. Yet today only 3.2% of single-family detached homes have installed solar panels. Residential solar also generates a smaller percentage of total US energy production, making up less than 1% of all energy production in 2021.

So........ These things are just so wonderful, that in half a century, less than 4% of the homes in the entire United States have them. And mind you that is only WITH literally billions of dollars of government money being continually pumped into this entire fiasco.

And 3.2% is the best they can come up with. And that is with modern improved output panels and all. That's not an "achievement", it a disaster. And it will become a total failure, just as soon as this idiotic government of ours comes to their senses, and stops pumping money they don't have into this gigantic, flea ridden dog.

If something is a great idea, that is bound to prosper, it doesn't require 50 years to establish a less than 4% foot hold in the marketplace. And can only achieve that dismal of a number, with literally billions in government subsidies being wasted on it.

Roof orientation. Type of roof, cost, state utilities dictating whether compensation for excess power is available (Utilities looking to deter rooftop arrays), HOA's. cost of power itself, etc.

 

[Cujet]

Hmm, so someone is making you buy EV?

In fact, over time the answer will be soundly, "yes" we will not have a choice. I don't give away inside information on this forum due to my job and position. But you should know that the push for electrification is not simply "strong incentives". Things are happening that require engine manufacturing to be shut down. And there will be a strong legal push to hold petroleum manufacturers liable for GW. Again, in a decade, we will not have any viable choices other than EV.

It's also good to know that there are tasks EV's will never be able to do. Transport aircraft is example number 1. For that, hydrogen or sustainable aviation fuels will be necessary. Battery energy density can not and will never match what fuels can do. Lithium is the most active metal for batteries and it has just so many ions to move. We can improve by making certain battery components smaller, (and/or eliminating them) but there won't be miracles in energy density.

Think back to fuel energy density. People used to believe that some fuel would be developed that contained twice the energy as diesel fuel. Engineers knew better, but the general public still thought some super-fuel would come about. So it is with batteries. The fuels we have today are well refined and capable. They are not more energy dense than during WW-1 or WW-II. Batteries are no different.