BMW 5w40 LL04 Oil Conundrum - S55 Motor

[Bleasejonathan]

Hi all,

New to the forum and am hoping to get some insight from your expertise. I have a 2020 BMW M2 Competition with the 3L 6 cylinder twin turbo engine (called the S55).

I do lots of track days and as such want to use a top quality oil which is performance focussed and change it regularly as the car does get quite a hard time. In the UK due to emissions regulations the car is fitted with an OPF filter and as such the oil needs to be mid/low SAPs oil and be LL04 compliant to ensure it stays within warranty.

BMW recommend the following oils - 0w30, 5w30, 5w40 LL04 - naively on my part I'm assuming given the track days I've been opting for 5w40.

I'm really struggling to find a good quality 5w40 LL04 engine oil that doesn't cost the earth! I'm currently running Redline 5w40 (https://cdn.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/redline/MotorOilsTD.pdf) I'm lead to believe this is a good oil to use and is LL04 compliant but in the UK this costs me about 170USD for 7 litres and wanting to change every 3 or max 4 trackdays makes this a very expensive option. The alternative option is to use the Motul specific LL04 5w40 which I can get for a much more reasonable costs (https://cdn.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/motul/Specific-LL-04-5W-40-8327-(GB).pdf).

My questions are....

- Is there actually much technical difference between the Redline and Motul oils (I struggle to read the data)
- Would I be better to run a "better Oil" in Redline for longer intervals (every 5 trackdays) or buy the cheaper motul (or similar) option and change every 3 trackdays
- Is there an alternative option?

Thanks in advance

 

[drtyler]

If you are concerned with actual LL-04 approval, go with Motul.

 

[kschachn]

Grade is irrelevant with BMW approvals, ignore it. If you’re worried about warranty then no Redline products have BMW approvals unless you are taking about the Professional Series which is nothing more than a rebadged oil. You can find another oil with the same approval for less. The one you reference does not have BMW approval.

Also the oil doesn’t have to be “compliant” it needs to have the actual approval, if that’s what you want.

 

[Bleasejonathan]

Grade is irrelevant with BMW approvals, ignore it. If you’re worried about warranty then no Redline products have BMW approvals unless you are taking about the Professional Series which is nothing more than a rebadged oil. You can find another oil with the same approval for less. The one you reference does not have BMW approval.

Also the oil doesn’t have to be “compliant” it needs to have the actual approval, if that’s what you want.

It says LL04 approved on the bottle! This is the link - https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-81863-red-line-euro-series-5w-40-motor-oil.aspx

 

[blufeb95]

It says LL04 approved on the bottle! This is the link - https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-81863-red-line-euro-series-5w-40-motor-oil.aspx

I only see a recommendation no indication of licensing or approval

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Motul,
Total,
Castrol,
Mobil 1,
Shell,
Liqui Moly,
Ravenol.
I would think all of these should be readily available in 5w40 LL04 at a cheaper price.

Fyi, the only Redline oil which has a formal approval is their "Professional Series" (i.e. rebadged Philips 66). The "Euro-Series" does not have a formal approval but I'm sure it's more than adequate for track days. Just expensive.

 

[kschachn]

It says LL04 approved on the bottle! This is the link - https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-81863-red-line-euro-series-5w-40-motor-oil.aspx

No it doesn't.

 

[Bleasejonathan]

That's pretty naughty from Redline is they don't have LL04 approval but they print it on the bottle...

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

That's pretty naughty from Redline is they don't have LL04 approval but they print it on the bottle...

It's common throughout the industry.. The difference between "Recommended for" vs "Formal Approvals" etc.

 

[kschachn]

That's pretty naughty from Redline is they don't have LL04 approval but they print it on the bottle...

They don't print it is approved so it's not "naughty" at all. Notice they say "Recommended For" which it is. On the other hand if I had a vehicle I was running on the track I would use Redline, that's what it is for.

What's the conundrum again?

 

[Bleasejonathan]

They don't print it is approved so it's not "naughty" at all. Notice they say "Recommended For" which it is. On the other hand if I had a vehicle I was running on the track I would use Redline, that's what it is for.

What's the conundrum again?

It’s misleading at best... Not sure you’d get that away with that in many other industries...FDA “recommended” Covid vaccine anyone? How can something be recommended for a certification, not sure how that actually makes sense!?

My question is, looking at the tech specs is the Redline oil I’m using actually worthy of its expense or comparatively is the Motul 5W40 specific LL04 as good?

 

[Bleasejonathan]

Grade is irrelevant with BMW approvals, ignore it. If you’re worried about warranty then no Redline products have BMW approvals unless you are taking about the Professional Series which is nothing more than a rebadged oil. You can find another oil with the same approval for less. The one you reference does not have BMW approval.

Also the oil doesn’t have to be “compliant” it needs to have the actual approval, if that’s what you want.

Look up the definition of compliant...

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

It’s misleading at best... Not sure you’d get that away with that in many other industries...FDA “recommended” Covid vaccine anyone? How can something be recommended for a certification, not sure how that actually makes sense!?

My question is, looking at the tech specs is the Redline oil I’m using actually worthy of its expense or comparatively is the Motul 5W40 specific LL04 as good?

Being in Europe you have a lot more access to these oils than here in North America. I'm sure they cost more but personally with the car under warranty I would want an actual approved oil. The Motul would be a good choice.

 

[kschachn]

Look up the definition of compliant...

Look up the definition of approval.

 

[kschachn]

It’s misleading at best... Not sure you’d get that away with that in many other industries...FDA “recommended” Covid vaccine anyone? How can something be recommended for a certification, not sure how that actually makes sense!?

My question is, looking at the tech specs is the Redline oil I’m using actually worthy of its expense or comparatively is the Motul 5W40 specific LL04 as good?

If you think that is misleading you should see how some other blenders and even manufacturers list approvals and licenses. Redline is clear as a bell that it is recommended and not approved. They even use the exact word.

No one on here can predict the future performance of an oil based on the "tech specs" vs. an approval. Redline oil is formulated for track use.

 

[Shel_B]

It says LL04 approved on the bottle! This is the link - https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-81863-red-line-euro-series-5w-40-motor-oil.aspx

Looks like it says "recommended," not approved.

 

[Bleasejonathan]

If you think that is misleading you should see how some other blenders and even manufacturers list approvals and licenses. Redline is clear as a bell that it is recommended and not approved. They even use the exact word.

No one on here can predict the future performance of an oil based on the "tech specs" vs. an approval. Redline oil is formulated for track use.

I’m not asking to predict the future I’m asking for some informed opinions on Motul LL04 specific vs Redline for my intended track use, is there a notable difference?

 

[Bleasejonathan]

Looks like it says "recommended," not approved.

I see that now. Still not sure how something can be “recommended” for a manufacturer approval without being approved, doesn’t really make sense as a concept. What is the recommendation based on?

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I see that now. Still not sure how something can be “recommended” for a manufacturer approval without being approved, doesn’t really make sense as a concept. What is the recommendation based on?

Unfortunately it is pretty common, for oils that don't want to pay to go through the manufacturer process to certify the oil, or ones that simply don't pass. Shell is actually quite bad for this too, they'll put something like "approvals and recommendations" on the package and then list everything together below it, so unless you check the actual list with the manufacturer you don't really know if it is approved or not.

To make it even more confusing the specs are often updated and changed without changing the name of the spec. For example LL-01 was revised in 2018/2019 and a lot of oil that met LL-01 for many years no longer carries the approval.

 

[kschachn]

I’m not asking to predict the future I’m asking for some informed opinions on Motul LL04 specific vs Redline for my intended track use, is there a notable difference?

What are you looking to note? Oxidation resistance? Wear resistance? Fuel economy? Deposit formation? Valve deposit control?

One notable (and informed) difference is the Motul product has actual Longlife-04 approval which demonstrates the oil's performance in all those areas.