Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds
- Thread starter grampi
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't know how many times I've heard people say "the Blue Angels are better than the Thunderbirds". I just saw the Blue Angels perform at the Dayton air show this past Sunday and I still say the Thunderbirds put on a better show...
You're the one that keeps bleating about how great the Thunderbirds are. Over, and over, and over.
And over.
The T-Birds simply don't fly as close as the Blues. Never have. The Blue Angels existed before the Thunderbirds. The Blue Angels were flying shows before there even was a United States Air Force.
But, I will admit, the Blue Angels simply can't match the T-Bird crash rate. My favorite: accidentally shutting down your engine* and crashing in front of POTUS during an airshow at the USAF Academy...hard to top that maneuver!
https://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/14/thunderbirds-crash-cause-colorado-springs/
*The "official" story. However, he called "bingo", meaning fuel low, 15 minutes prior to the crash...and there was no post-crash fire...but one doesn't want to admit that a T-Bird ran out of gas, so the "sticking throttle switch" makes for a fig leaf of legitimacy...but only a fig leaf...
Maybe the fact that the BAs flying a few inches closer together than the T-birds do doesn't really seem to add anything to the show, as far as being impressive to watch. The maneuvers the T-Birds do are more impressive to watch.
It’s not just a matter of close together.
The shows are different.
The jets are different.
The T-birds use the energy addition of the F-16 to impress with maneuvers.
https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/airshow/military/media/Thunderbirds_Maneuvers_Package.pdf
Loops.
Lots of loops.
The Blues exploit the superior slow speed handling of the Hornet to do things that the T-birds simply cannot do.
E.G. fly next to each other while one is inverted. Fly next to each other while one is dirty and inverted. Do a dirty roll on takeoff. A slow speed high alpha pass. A simulated carrier wave off and dirty climb.
If you understand airplanes, all of those maneuvers are harder, and more impressive, than zooming up for another loop or vertical maneuver.
The Blues could fly the T-birds show, but instead, they choose do things that the T-birds simply cannot do.
And they do it while flying closer together.
Ok, mine is bigger than yours. The T-Birds wear G-suits, the Blue Angels don't. A Blue Angel told me they don't need them. A Thunderbird told me there are several sustained G maneuvers that they do that require them, that the Blues don't do.
Touche. Chevy is better than Ford.
Slow speed maneuvers are great, but a Stearman can do it better than an F-18. Big deal. I like the speed and power of the F-18, and F-16, for that matter, and think the slow speed characteristics are amusing, but that's not why I like watching them.
Sorry, but their shows are just not that different. Either squad could fly 95% of the other's show, with the airplanes they've got, as configured.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't know how many times I've heard people say "the Blue Angels are better than the Thunderbirds". I just saw the Blue Angels perform at the Dayton air show this past Sunday and I still say the Thunderbirds put on a better show...
You're the one that keeps bleating about how great the Thunderbirds are. Over, and over, and over.
And over.
The T-Birds simply don't fly as close as the Blues. Never have. The Blue Angels existed before the Thunderbirds. The Blue Angels were flying shows before there even was a United States Air Force.
But, I will admit, the Blue Angels simply can't match the T-Bird crash rate. My favorite: accidentally shutting down your engine* and crashing in front of POTUS during an airshow at the USAF Academy...hard to top that maneuver!
https://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/14/thunderbirds-crash-cause-colorado-springs/
*The "official" story. However, he called "bingo", meaning fuel low, 15 minutes prior to the crash...and there was no post-crash fire...but one doesn't want to admit that a T-Bird ran out of gas, so the "sticking throttle switch" makes for a fig leaf of legitimacy...but only a fig leaf...
Maybe the fact that the BAs flying a few inches closer together than the T-birds do doesn't really seem to add anything to the show, as far as being impressive to watch. The maneuvers the T-Birds do are more impressive to watch.
It’s not just a matter of close together.
The shows are different.
The jets are different.
The T-birds use the energy addition of the F-16 to impress with maneuvers.
https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/airshow/military/media/Thunderbirds_Maneuvers_Package.pdf
Loops.
Lots of loops.
The Blues exploit the superior slow speed handling of the Hornet to do things that the T-birds simply cannot do.
E.G. fly next to each other while one is inverted. Fly next to each other while one is dirty and inverted. Do a dirty roll on takeoff. A slow speed high alpha pass. A simulated carrier wave off and dirty climb.
If you understand airplanes, all of those maneuvers are harder, and more impressive, than zooming up for another loop or vertical maneuver.
The Blues could fly the T-birds show, but instead, they choose do things that the T-birds simply cannot do.
And they do it while flying closer together.
Ok, mine is bigger than yours. The T-Birds wear G-suits, the Blue Angels don't. A Blue Angel told me they don't need them. A Thunderbird told me there are several sustained G maneuvers that they do that require them, that the Blues don't do.
Touche. Chevy is better than Ford.
Slow speed maneuvers are great, but a Stearman can do it better than an F-18. Big deal. I like the speed and power of the F-18, and F-16, for that matter, and think the slow speed characteristics are amusing, but that's not why I like watching them.
Sorry, but their shows are just not that different. Either squad could fly 95% of the other's show, with the airplanes they've got, as configured.
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Originally Posted By: IndyFan
I've seen both dozens of times and I can't see much difference. Both are incredible. Both have amazing jets. (I'd love to see the E/F Super Hornet, though). I like the paint job on the T-birds better, and think the F-16 is a sexier looking jet.
It's Ford vs. Chevy. People will get their dander up over something silly.
As for Navy pilots being better? Well, some are, and some aren't. General statements are silly, too.
There's a definite pucker factor landing on a carrier that any reasonable person cannot deny. If not better, they have more nerve. But I think their better. I applied to the air force wanting nothing to do with carriers.
I've seen both dozens of times and I can't see much difference. Both are incredible. Both have amazing jets. (I'd love to see the E/F Super Hornet, though). I like the paint job on the T-birds better, and think the F-16 is a sexier looking jet.
It's Ford vs. Chevy. People will get their dander up over something silly.
As for Navy pilots being better? Well, some are, and some aren't. General statements are silly, too.
There's a definite pucker factor landing on a carrier that any reasonable person cannot deny. If not better, they have more nerve. But I think their better. I applied to the air force wanting nothing to do with carriers.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: IndyFan
I've seen both dozens of times and I can't see much difference. Both are incredible. Both have amazing jets. (I'd love to see the E/F Super Hornet, though). I like the paint job on the T-birds better, and think the F-16 is a sexier looking jet.
It's Ford vs. Chevy. People will get their dander up over something silly.
As for Navy pilots being better? Well, some are, and some aren't. General statements are silly, too.
There's a definite pucker factor landing on a carrier that any reasonable person cannot deny. If not better, they have more nerve. But I think their better. I applied to the air force wanting nothing to do with carriers.
This thread wasn't about whose pilots are better, or who has the most difficult job, it's about who puts on a better air show...no one in their right mind is going to say that landing on a carrier isn't way more difficult than landing on a runway, but I fail to see how that adds to the airshow aspect...they don't do carrier landings during the airshow...
Originally Posted By: IndyFan
I've seen both dozens of times and I can't see much difference. Both are incredible. Both have amazing jets. (I'd love to see the E/F Super Hornet, though). I like the paint job on the T-birds better, and think the F-16 is a sexier looking jet.
It's Ford vs. Chevy. People will get their dander up over something silly.
As for Navy pilots being better? Well, some are, and some aren't. General statements are silly, too.
There's a definite pucker factor landing on a carrier that any reasonable person cannot deny. If not better, they have more nerve. But I think their better. I applied to the air force wanting nothing to do with carriers.
This thread wasn't about whose pilots are better, or who has the most difficult job, it's about who puts on a better air show...no one in their right mind is going to say that landing on a carrier isn't way more difficult than landing on a runway, but I fail to see how that adds to the airshow aspect...they don't do carrier landings during the airshow...
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
But, I will admit, the Blue Angels simply can't match the T-Bird crash rate. My favorite: accidentally shutting down your engine* and crashing in front of POTUS during an airshow at the USAF Academy...hard to top that maneuver!
OUCH!
But, I will admit, the Blue Angels simply can't match the T-Bird crash rate. My favorite: accidentally shutting down your engine* and crashing in front of POTUS during an airshow at the USAF Academy...hard to top that maneuver!
OUCH!
In 1972 or so the T-Birds flew directly down Dale Mabry Highway in Tampa from the MacDill Gate to Gandy Boulevard. I swear they were 50 feet high, even though I'm sure it was higher! At least to a kid in a school bus!
Both these teams are super impressive.
Both these teams are super impressive.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
In 1972 or so the T-Birds flew directly down Dale Mabry Highway in Tampa from the MacDill Gate to Gandy Boulevard. I swear they were 50 feet high, even though I'm sure it was higher! At least to a kid in a school bus!
Both these teams are super impressive.
Were they still flying the F4s in '72? The first time I saw the T-Birds fly they were still using the F-100s. First time I saw the Blue Angels they were flying the F-11 Tigers...
In 1972 or so the T-Birds flew directly down Dale Mabry Highway in Tampa from the MacDill Gate to Gandy Boulevard. I swear they were 50 feet high, even though I'm sure it was higher! At least to a kid in a school bus!
Both these teams are super impressive.
Were they still flying the F4s in '72? The first time I saw the T-Birds fly they were still using the F-100s. First time I saw the Blue Angels they were flying the F-11 Tigers...
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I have seen both and enjoy both teams but no matter neither can out fly my wife once she mounts that broom.
Originally Posted By: Trav
I have seen both and enjoy both teams but no matter neither can out fly my wife once she mounts that broom.
Been nice knowing you, Trav. I'll miss you.
I have seen both and enjoy both teams but no matter neither can out fly my wife once she mounts that broom.
Been nice knowing you, Trav. I'll miss you.
Here are your little buddies up in Canada. The Snow Birds, flying CT-104 Canadair Tutors. Be nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuGqazuzPdw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuGqazuzPdw
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Here are your little buddies up in Canada. The Snow Birds, flying CT-104 Canadair Tutors. Be nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuGqazuzPdw
They're good too!
Here are your little buddies up in Canada. The Snow Birds, flying CT-104 Canadair Tutors. Be nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuGqazuzPdw
They're good too!
I like them all However the best show i ever saw was in willow run Michigan back in 90's. Unlike all other shows i've seen they flew in from many different directions right over our heads and just above the treetops. They were very close to Sound barrier and the THUNDER was fantastic! every other show Ive seen they tend to parallel the flight-line and maintain higher overall altitude. I would like to see a show over water but have not yet.
I've never seen a Hornet refueling 2 other Hornets in a fly over of the crowd.
Maybe they should showcase the Hornet mid air refueling capabilities.
Maybe they should showcase the Hornet mid air refueling capabilities.
Originally Posted By: IndyFan
(I'd love to see the E/F Super Hornet, though).
Be patient, the Blues will be getting them soon.....
Quote:
The transition to the Super Hornet was also discussed. Currently, the team is in their 30th year of flying the Boeing F/A-18 Legacy Hornet. Despite internet rumors of a switch to the Super Hornet in September of this year or at the beginning of the 2018 season, the team plans to continue flying their Hornets for now. In fact, they are currently inducting three “new” Hornets into the squadron.
The target date for transitioning to the Super Hornet is not until 2019, and it was quickly pointed out that it could slip beyond that. There are several Super Hornets already set aside for the team, but they will need to be modified and tested before the pilots can begin training. One step in the right direction was mentioned; apparently a couple (now previous) Blue Angel pilots have already flown the current flight demonstration profile in the Super Hornet simulator and the results seemed positive.
http://airshowstuff.com/v4/2017/blue-angels-rock-oshkosh-discuss-super-hornet-transition-plans/
(I'd love to see the E/F Super Hornet, though).
Be patient, the Blues will be getting them soon.....
Quote:
The transition to the Super Hornet was also discussed. Currently, the team is in their 30th year of flying the Boeing F/A-18 Legacy Hornet. Despite internet rumors of a switch to the Super Hornet in September of this year or at the beginning of the 2018 season, the team plans to continue flying their Hornets for now. In fact, they are currently inducting three “new” Hornets into the squadron.
The target date for transitioning to the Super Hornet is not until 2019, and it was quickly pointed out that it could slip beyond that. There are several Super Hornets already set aside for the team, but they will need to be modified and tested before the pilots can begin training. One step in the right direction was mentioned; apparently a couple (now previous) Blue Angel pilots have already flown the current flight demonstration profile in the Super Hornet simulator and the results seemed positive.
http://airshowstuff.com/v4/2017/blue-angels-rock-oshkosh-discuss-super-hornet-transition-plans/
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Originally Posted By: Bud
Originally Posted By: Trav
I have seen both and enjoy both teams but no matter neither can out fly my wife once she mounts that broom.
Well we now know for sure that she does no reading on BTOG.
Naw, she is a good sport.
Originally Posted By: Trav
I have seen both and enjoy both teams but no matter neither can out fly my wife once she mounts that broom.
Well we now know for sure that she does no reading on BTOG.
Naw, she is a good sport.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Bud
Originally Posted By: Trav
I have seen both and enjoy both teams but no matter neither can out fly my wife once she mounts that broom.
Well we now know for sure that she does no reading on BTOG.
Naw, she is a good sport.
Trav,
I raise (pun) you one and couple bat wings (I'm on a roll, hehehe),
Ever been married to a Transylvanian?
Originally Posted By: Bud
Originally Posted By: Trav
I have seen both and enjoy both teams but no matter neither can out fly my wife once she mounts that broom.
Well we now know for sure that she does no reading on BTOG.
Naw, she is a good sport.
Trav,
I raise (pun) you one and couple bat wings (I'm on a roll, hehehe),
Ever been married to a Transylvanian?
As retired USAF it kills me to say but the Blue Angles do out preform
the Thunderbirds... however in a dog fight the F22 will out perform
the F18... a Raptor pilot will fly up an Navy Aviator's tail so quick
and he won't know the score until he is eating bullets...
the Thunderbirds... however in a dog fight the F22 will out perform
the F18... a Raptor pilot will fly up an Navy Aviator's tail so quick
and he won't know the score until he is eating bullets...
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