Blue Angels vs Thunderbirds

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Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Were any of these planes mentioned ever equipped with 105mm howitzer, able to carry a GBU-43/B MOAB, or able to land, stop, and takeoff again, unassisted, on a carrier flight deck? I think not. C-130
Come here Mr.Hercules we won't hurt you...
 
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Astro14

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Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Were any of these planes mentioned ever equipped with 105mm howitzer, able to carry a GBU-43/B MOAB, or able to land, stop, and takeoff again, unassisted, on a carrier flight deck? I think not. C-130
The carrier landing was a stunt. Done once to demonstrate a concept that ultimately had no military utility. For the rest, well... There are two kinds of airplanes in the world: fighters and targets. The Herc is great in a permissive environment, which is made possible by fighters. The Herc has got incredible utility, and can operate forward on unimproved surfaces, as has been doing really well offensively against an adversary (Afghanistan and Iraq) that has no fighters, no SAMs, and no AAA. In a real war, the Herc is just another grape; fat, juicy, easy to pluck. Without the fighters to establish air superiority, and to suppress enemy air defenses, it has no chance of survival.
 
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Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Were any of these planes mentioned ever equipped with 105mm howitzer, able to carry a GBU-43/B MOAB, or able to land, stop, and takeoff again, unassisted, on a carrier flight deck? I think not. C-130
 

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Originally Posted By: Trav
I have seen both and enjoy both teams but no matter neither can out fly my wife once she mounts that broom.
Trav I have been thinking about it for a while and I would put my wife's up against your wife's flying abilities any time, any place, any where!
 

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The C130 has A toilet and urinal ! That makes it better than any fighter jet. Just my opinion.
 

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Originally Posted By: CT8
The C130 has A toilet and urinal ! That makes it better than any fighter jet. Just my opinion.
Given my age, I would agree with you... Until the first missile impact...
 
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: CT8
The C130 has A toilet and urinal ! That makes it better than any fighter jet. Just my opinion.
Given my age, I would agree with you... Until the first missile impact...
Or the first negative G pushover.
 
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My comments, although true, were somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I am not trying to imply that a Hercules can take on a modern fighter. I have to disagree with the carrier landing. It was not really a stunt. They were serious. That exercise was trying to determine the viability of a C-130 on a carrier. The major reason it did not happen, is because the Hercules can't be stored below deck. Similar experiments took place with the U-2.
 

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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: CT8
The C130 has A toilet and urinal ! That makes it better than any fighter jet. Just my opinion.
Given my age, I would agree with you... Until the first missile impact...
Missle fear or Bath room facilities fear? Bathroom !
 
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I'm just not sure the f22 is worth the money. How much armament can one plane carry.
. In wargames, a pair of F-22s routinely kill dozens of regular airplanes, most of which never even see the Raptor coming. It's like pitting your 'Vette against a Ferrari F-40. The missiles that the F-22 carries are not the sum total of its offensive capability - the airplane does so much more. It is absolutely worth the money.
I'd just ram the Ferrari with my vette. I'm not getting it. The f22 kills things really far away? Does that mean that dogfighting is outdated? Then the technology is really in the smart missile. Is there already a discussion on the f22 I can look at.
 

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Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I'd just ram the Ferrari with my vette. I'm not getting it. The f22 kills things really far away? Does that mean that dogfighting is outdated? Then the technology is really in the smart missile. Is there already a discussion on the f22 I can look at.
It's not as simple as you make it out to be. The F-22 Radar can track targets far away. The airplane flies at over Mach 1 without the use of AB, so it stays fast, and high, very high. The other fighters don't see it. But it sees them, and can shoot at long range. So, they're unaware of the Raptor presence. Until missile impact. What do you consider a dog-fight? How do you think a fighter engagement starts? If the other fighters could see it, they can match its speed, for a few minutes, until it runs them low on fuel (supercruise has huge tactical implications). Even if you skipped the missile engagement, and went straight to BFM (Basic Fighter Maneuvers), the F-22 has all the cards - it out-accelerates, out turns, out climbs and simply out-performs everything else by a long shot. So, sure, make it a gunfight, the Raptor wins. Make it a missile fight, with equal missiles between the adversary and the Raptor, and the Raptor wins. But there is a lot more to the airplane than just missiles and guns. The advantages it has are speed, stealth, range, endurance, altitude, targeting, networking, and others.
 
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Here is an analogy: You and are are engaged in combat, using rifles, at long range. Stealth on my side means that you have to wear a blindfold the whole time.
 
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Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: CT8
The C130 has A toilet and urinal ! That makes it better than any fighter jet. Just my opinion.
Given my age, I would agree with you... Until the first missile impact...
Missle fear or Bath room facilities fear? Bathroom !
I read an article that very early on this was a problem on long B-2 Stealth Bomber missions. It was supposedly solved by purchasing one of those, "Port-A-Potty" portable camping toilets from Camping World for the crew.
 

CT8

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[/quote]For the rest, well... There are two kinds of airplanes in the world: fighters and targets. [/quote] Not wanting to disprove grin an accomplished Naval aviator ! I must correct you with all due respect. There are two kinds of airplanes in the world: those with bathrooms and those with out bathrooms.
 

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Originally Posted By: CT8
For the rest, well... There are two kinds of airplanes in the world: fighters and targets. [/quote] Not wanting to disprove grin an accomplished Naval aviator ! I must correct you with all due respect. There are two kinds of airplanes in the world: those with bathrooms and those with out bathrooms. [/quote] A different metric, but equally valid... Cheers2
 
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Even if you skipped the missile engagement, and went straight to BFM (Basic Fighter Maneuvers), the F-22 has all the cards - it out-accelerates, out turns, out climbs and simply out-performs everything else by a long shot.
Even the latest from Russia?
 
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Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Even if you skipped the missile engagement, and went straight to BFM (Basic Fighter Maneuvers), the F-22 has all the cards - it out-accelerates, out turns, out climbs and simply out-performs everything else by a long shot.
Even the latest from Russia?
Why so few F-22 built ?
 
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At the time the decision was made to terminate the buy well short of what the Air Force stated their needs were (and the Air Force gave up/sacrificed a massive amount of their existing capability in order to afford the F-22 program), the branch of government in control of the purse strings, along with their leader, decided the number bought was enough. This was a financial decision that had nothing to do with military requirements. Those are the simple facts, and please don't turn this thread political and get it locked. Russia still has nothing to compare. I don't think it will for the foreseeable future. China might compete someday if they are ever able to steal our engine manufacturing technology.
 
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