biobased engine oil
- Thread starter LarryL
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Larry,
This is one site that I have visited. I sent them an email about 4 days ago and no answer yet. They do have engine oils other than Racing Oils but you have to call or email. I am interested in their 15W40 HDEO, but as I stated, no answer yet.
Renewable Lubricants
This is one site that I have visited. I sent them an email about 4 days ago and no answer yet. They do have engine oils other than Racing Oils but you have to call or email. I am interested in their 15W40 HDEO, but as I stated, no answer yet.
Renewable Lubricants
High Oleic seed oils suck as far as oxidation stability and PP go. The offer excellent lubrication value far exceeding ester's currently used in PCMO formulations. But the PP and sludge formation more like thick sludge make it a short term 1 or 2 race and drump oil.
bruce
bruce
Couldn't have put it better. Of course, the linolentic and other less saturated fatty acids are even worse. I spent 10 years as a chemist making paint out of ''drying oils''. No soybean oil in my crankcase.
"Couldn't have put it better. Of course, the linolentic and other less saturated fatty acids are even worse. I spent 10 years as a chemist making paint out of ''drying oils''. No soybean oil in my crankcase."
In doing work on bio oil's I found that the triple bonded oils gave a nice hard lacquer and
the double bond gave a very thick vis oil maybe 3-4 times vis that started with and you are right most all seed oils are called "drying oils" for good reason.
bruce
In doing work on bio oil's I found that the triple bonded oils gave a nice hard lacquer and
the double bond gave a very thick vis oil maybe 3-4 times vis that started with and you are right most all seed oils are called "drying oils" for good reason.
bruce
Fuchs Titan GT1 0w-20 is a zinc-free, rapeseed-based oil. It's not available in the US, though.
And I bet it's cheap too! (Bio-junk always costs much more and is nowhere near as good)
I think you would be surprised at how stable highly refined oils of Sunflower, Peanut, and even Soy oil can be--even without A.O. packages.
I am a supporter of the appropriate use of these fluids, up until recently the cost differential limits the broad based use of them . With crude and base oil pricing on the rise they will become more accepted.
Labman, much has been done to improve the lubricant aspect of the fluids you made paint out of.
I have worked with racing oil formulations for engine oils that employ proprietary blends of these products with great success. Getting that to the pcmo market at a price point that will be accepted is another story we have yet to see play out.
The Auto-Rx product is a successful example of using non petroleum lubes to make a safe and effective EP resistant cleaner and lube. It does not form deposits either.
Labman, much has been done to improve the lubricant aspect of the fluids you made paint out of.
I have worked with racing oil formulations for engine oils that employ proprietary blends of these products with great success. Getting that to the pcmo market at a price point that will be accepted is another story we have yet to see play out.
The Auto-Rx product is a successful example of using non petroleum lubes to make a safe and effective EP resistant cleaner and lube. It does not form deposits either.
MolaKule
Staff member
Which is why we use:
a.) special anti-oxidants for these oils and,
b.) why we use highly refined versions of these oils.
These oils are often blended with PAO's and other esters.
Also see this thread:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000444#000002
Blends of high Oleic oils or ester maybe OK in a race oil that is changed often and seed oils will give great lubrication without AW or FM additives.
Only 3-5% will give low friction numbers and work very well but 5-10% in a Mineral PCMO in my mind is not a BIO lube, more like 50%-60% or more would be more like it.
BUT not used as 100% replacement of conventional mineral oil's in a PCMO they are NOT stable enough and that includes the new Cargil stuff.
And yes I know about PPD and AO and blending seed oils into other oils to improve there lousy stability but they still are not stable enough.
Auto RX I thought has a lanolin ester from Fanning Corp. If so that is not what I call a seed oil and Yes it will be very stable.
Different animal in my mind.
Bruce
Only 3-5% will give low friction numbers and work very well but 5-10% in a Mineral PCMO in my mind is not a BIO lube, more like 50%-60% or more would be more like it.
BUT not used as 100% replacement of conventional mineral oil's in a PCMO they are NOT stable enough and that includes the new Cargil stuff.
And yes I know about PPD and AO and blending seed oils into other oils to improve there lousy stability but they still are not stable enough.
Auto RX I thought has a lanolin ester from Fanning Corp. If so that is not what I call a seed oil and Yes it will be very stable.
Different animal in my mind.
Bruce
Hi Bruce you have a tremendous amount of knowledge regarding engine lubricants, just curious what brand of engine oil do you use in your own vehicles.If you blend it yourself than tell me what brand you would buy off the shelf.
Redline is the best or use Delo 15/40 covers all the bases use the one with the GP III ISO SYN on the label.
bruce
bruce
There is a company in Eads, CO at www.greatplainsoil.net that makes bio-based oil products.
Bruce381, where does your veggie info come from?
Have you personally tested the renewablelube, sterlinggrade or amg2000?
Years ago, I put 200k miles on a car with mineral oil. It had religiously 3k/3mo oil changes. It needed valve adjustments every 30k miles and everytimme I needed to clean the sludge off of the valve cover and whatever sludge I could scrape off the head.
This was in the late 1980's early 1990's. I also did tons of parts salvaging at the junk yards(when they were still called junk yards). And, I never saw an engine without sludge and would bet that they used mineral oils.
Maybe today mineral oil and synthetics are great. But, minerals oils sucked for 100+ years and we still used them regardless of the amount of sludge they left behind!
We are now at that point with these new vegetable based oils. So, you'll have to engineer for them a little. Maybe the vegetable oil will need different refining/blending practices. Maybe the oil temp needs to be cooler/controlled during normal use. Maybe more special additives will need to be developed. Maybe a oil pan heater will be needed to bring the oil up to temp during the winter. Maybe we'll blend these animal/vegetable oils with mineral/synths as a start.
I think that technology in the future will make it possible. I remember my 1st microwave, 1st cable TV hookup, 1st cellphone, my 1st OBDII car..... and I can't wait until enviro-lubes show up at Autozone.
Have you personally tested the renewablelube, sterlinggrade or amg2000?
Years ago, I put 200k miles on a car with mineral oil. It had religiously 3k/3mo oil changes. It needed valve adjustments every 30k miles and everytimme I needed to clean the sludge off of the valve cover and whatever sludge I could scrape off the head.
This was in the late 1980's early 1990's. I also did tons of parts salvaging at the junk yards(when they were still called junk yards). And, I never saw an engine without sludge and would bet that they used mineral oils.
Maybe today mineral oil and synthetics are great. But, minerals oils sucked for 100+ years and we still used them regardless of the amount of sludge they left behind!
We are now at that point with these new vegetable based oils. So, you'll have to engineer for them a little. Maybe the vegetable oil will need different refining/blending practices. Maybe the oil temp needs to be cooler/controlled during normal use. Maybe more special additives will need to be developed. Maybe a oil pan heater will be needed to bring the oil up to temp during the winter. Maybe we'll blend these animal/vegetable oils with mineral/synths as a start.
I think that technology in the future will make it possible. I remember my 1st microwave, 1st cable TV hookup, 1st cellphone, my 1st OBDII car..... and I can't wait until enviro-lubes show up at Autozone.
If you think old GP I solvent extracted mineral oils were bad then that is about where the high oleic seed oils are now BAD. All the engineering changes you mentioned maybe can be done to make seed oils work BUT they are not a drop it to mineral oil. Everyone here worries about GP II or Pao or ester etc etc to get the most out of the oil but going to any seed oil is a backward step. Will seed oils get better YES just not there now other than all loss systems or a race oil that is changed every race.
Just some of the problems with seed oil variants
Cloud point
Pour Point
Hydrolitic stability
high aniline point
bad additive response
etc
Bruce
[ July 28, 2005, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: bruce381 ]
Just some of the problems with seed oil variants
Cloud point
Pour Point
Hydrolitic stability
high aniline point
bad additive response
etc
Bruce
[ July 28, 2005, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: bruce381 ]
"amg2000?"
never tested but a RBOT >150 big deal a GP II with 1.0% Di Phenyl amine will exceed I think 250-300 hours.
bruce
never tested but a RBOT >150 big deal a GP II with 1.0% Di Phenyl amine will exceed I think 250-300 hours.
bruce
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