Best start in cold: M1-EP 5-20 or 5-30?

[UltrafanUK]

A FS 5w20 is normally slightly better than a FS 5w30 in winter. You need to use the Widemans visectomy calculator with the two kinematic figures to draw the curves for a real answer, as most cold starts are below the 40c figure.

Some OEM's do not approve 0w20 or 30 oils cos their dealers don't like buying expensive oils.

Make sure you use the approved oil when under guarantee (First year in the UK, but several years in some countries). A warranty can be a nightmare, as you need to prove a failure was not your fault. The stealer will do everything possible to prove it was. Very few engines get fixed after an expensive failure without a legal scrap.

 

[DuckRyder]

I find it somewhat interesting that Mobils oil selector does not say "A 0W-20 viscosity can also be used." for the Hyundai where it does for say my Civic. I'm not sure if that is because the Honda has been officially back speced.

 

[KlooksKleek]

Originally Posted By: dblshock
aren't those engines suspect? is that why the spec is so important to you?


The spec is important because I'm still under the powertrain warranty and 5W-20 or 5W-30 is what is stated in the owner's manual to use (with 5W-20 printed on the fill cap). Why doesn't the manual allow for 0W, since we all know it helps with cold starts? I don't know. CAFE, and/or Hyundai not wanting its dealers to have to stock the more expensive 0W product, as was suggested by someone in this thread? Again, I don't know. I've asked at Hyundai, I get nowhere, so I gave up and decided I'll just stay within spec.

Guys, I truly, truly do believe a 0W would help, and that my motor would be just fine long-term with it vs. 5W, but I don't know how to save receipts in case I someday have to produce them if those receipts say I bought 0W products. I'm sure there's only a minuscule chance of any engine failure, and yes the oil company lawyers can slug it out with Hyundai lawyers about how 0W meets or exceeds the 5W spec, but it's all too exhausting when I could just buy a 5W product in the first place. I suppose I could buy the 5W product, copy the receipt for proof, then immediately return the oil for a 0W version, but....again, it's too much.

I'm still reading up like a madman with all the good stuff contained on this site. Many thanks for all comments so far.

 

[UltrafanUK]

If the base stocks are the same, an 0w20 will be slightly thinner when cold than a 5w20, BUT it will also be thinner when hot, which some OEM's might not like in terms of minimum oil film spec's.
An 0w20 also needs more additives (VI's) than a 5w20 and that makes them less able to deal with high temp shearing, IF it's used in a high performanc (High max RPM) or hot turbo job.

In warranty I would stick to the OEM spec oils (If the M1 oil says approved by the OEM, it should be good to go), BUT post extended warranty, then I would use a major brand FS 0 or 5w30.

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: KlooksKleek


The spec is important because I'm still under the powertrain warranty and 5W-20 or 5W-30 is what is stated in the owner's manual to use (with 5W-20 printed on the fill cap). Why doesn't the manual allow for 0W, since we all know it helps with cold starts? I don't know. CAFE, and/or Hyundai not wanting its dealers to have to stock the more expensive 0W product, as was suggested by someone in this thread? Again, I don't know. I've asked at Hyundai, I get nowhere, so I gave up and decided I'll just stay within spec.

Guys, I truly, truly do believe a 0W would help, and that my motor would be just fine long-term with it vs. 5W, but I don't know how to save receipts in case I someday have to produce them if those receipts say I bought 0W products. I'm sure there's only a minuscule chance of any engine failure, and yes the oil company lawyers can slug it out with Hyundai lawyers about how 0W meets or exceeds the 5W spec, but it's all too exhausting when I could just buy a 5W product in the first place. I suppose I could buy the 5W product, copy the receipt for proof, then immediately return the oil for a 0W version, but....again, it's too much.

I'm still reading up like a madman with all the good stuff contained on this site. Many thanks for all comments so far.


Then just get your oil changed at the dealer so you have proof it was changed if you are worried about a powertrain warranty claim where an oil is being blamed. If you don't want to save receipts showing you changed it then it doesn't matter what weight you used if you can't prove you changed it yourself at all.

 

[KlooksKleek]

Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: KlooksKleek


The spec is important because I'm still under the powertrain warranty and 5W-20 or 5W-30 is what is stated in the owner's manual to use (with 5W-20 printed on the fill cap). Why doesn't the manual allow for 0W, since we all know it helps with cold starts? I don't know. CAFE, and/or Hyundai not wanting its dealers to have to stock the more expensive 0W product, as was suggested by someone in this thread? Again, I don't know. I've asked at Hyundai, I get nowhere, so I gave up and decided I'll just stay within spec.

Guys, I truly, truly do believe a 0W would help, and that my motor would be just fine long-term with it vs. 5W, but I don't know how to save receipts in case I someday have to produce them if those receipts say I bought 0W products. I'm sure there's only a minuscule chance of any engine failure, and yes the oil company lawyers can slug it out with Hyundai lawyers about how 0W meets or exceeds the 5W spec, but it's all too exhausting when I could just buy a 5W product in the first place. I suppose I could buy the 5W product, copy the receipt for proof, then immediately return the oil for a 0W version, but....again, it's too much.

I'm still reading up like a madman with all the good stuff contained on this site. Many thanks for all comments so far.


Then just get your oil changed at the dealer so you have proof it was changed if you are worried about a powertrain warranty claim where an oil is being blamed. If you don't want to save receipts showing you changed it then it doesn't matter what weight you used if you can't prove you changed it yourself at all.


1: The dealership oil changes are too expensive and they don't use synth oil.
2: I do NOT have a problem saving receipts, but if I purchase 0W as many here recommend, then the receipt will show that. The factory spec is 5W.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Just use what is recommended by the manufacturer. You'll never know the difference, and then you can find something worthwhile to obsess over.

 

[fdcg27]

Go to the M1 site, get the TDS sheets for the two oils and you'll have your answer.
These are both 5W qualified oils and I doubt that either of them is the standout choice at the low end.
It will rarely get cold enough where you live to matter though it does matter how the car spends its nights.
In a garage? It'll never get cold enough to matter and it'll sit outside in the lot at work all day and temperatures will warm through that day.
Outside all night? This matters more but a 5W is qualified at more extreme conditions than you'll ever see.
Don't worry too much. We ran 10W-40 back in the day and I've started cars down to -27F that had sat outside all night on that brew. The engines weren't hurt in any way that I could tell over many miles following that.

 

[Neil_A]

Cold pour point of 5w30 EP is -40c; get this standard M1 5w30 is -42c. M1 5w20 is -43c with EP being -42c. Like already stated the coldest low in your area is -27f; so any of the above will protect just fine. Check the doc below.

http://www.mobil.com/english-US/Passenger-Vehicle-Lube/pds/GLXXMobil-1-Extended-Performance

 

[Danh]

As others have pointed out, either will be fine but if cold starts are the issue for you, 5w-20 would be slightly better. You can always go to 5w-30 in spring.

And even a 5w-30 full synthetic is miles and miles better than the 20w-50 conventional we used in the 70s in a colder climate than Chicago. With a carburetor, no less. And it always started just fine.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: car51
Maybe M1 0w20EP since it has a pour point of -62F

http://www.mobil.com/english-US/Passenger-Vehicle-Lube/pds/GLXXMobil-1-Extended-Performance


That's what I would use, it's probably at least 70% PAO with a dose of Group V as well...

 

[KlooksKleek]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Just use what is recommended by the manufacturer. You'll never know the difference, and then you can find something worthwhile to obsess over.


Yikes. I am hardly obsessing.

 

[Shannow]

No, Pops would make fun of a disabled kid in the street for walking funny.

 

[KlooksKleek]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Go to the M1 site, get the TDS sheets for the two oils and you'll have your answer.
These are both 5W qualified oils and I doubt that either of them is the standout choice at the low end.
It will rarely get cold enough where you live to matter though it does matter how the car spends its nights.
In a garage? It'll never get cold enough to matter and it'll sit outside in the lot at work all day and temperatures will warm through that day.
Outside all night? This matters more but a 5W is qualified at more extreme conditions than you'll ever see.
Don't worry too much. We ran 10W-40 back in the day and I've started cars down to -27F that had sat outside all night on that brew. The engines weren't hurt in any way that I could tell over many miles following that.


"The TDS sheets"....thanks for that. Looking forward to checking those out.

"5W is qualified at more extreme conditions than you'll ever see. Don't worry to0o much." Big

 

[KlooksKleek]

Originally Posted By: Neil_A
Cold pour point of 5w30 EP is -40c; get this standard M1 5w30 is -42c. M1 5w20 is -43c with EP being -42c. Like already stated the coldest low in your area is -27f; so any of the above will protect just fine. Check the doc below.

http://www.mobil.com/english-US/Passenger-Vehicle-Lube/pds/GLXXMobil-1-Extended-Performance


Thanks for that link, and the summation above it, but check this out re: EP vs. M1 cold-pour points: The back of the EP containers used to have a checklist of categories of EP vs. M1, and in the following categories the EP was given one star MORE than regular M1:

"15,000 Mile Protection" (3 stars EP vs. 2 stars M1) (of course)
Protects in High Temperatures"(3 stars EP vs. 2 stars M1)
Protects During Low Temperature Start-Ups" (3 stars EP vs. 2 stars M1)

BUT

On current containers, the Low Temperature claim of EP having the edge is no longer there.

(Thanks to my reading here I do understand pour-point is different than pumpability)

The learning continues. Fun!

 

[KlooksKleek]

Hey, thanks to all for your time and information; those who I've directly replied to and those I have not. Everything is very much appreciated.

My decision: Any 5W synthetic is gonna be perfectly fine for my application. No worries!

 

[veryHeavy]

"Any" is okay, but if you're looking for the "absolute best" cold performance then 0W-20 is best: Pour Point is -54 which means it will be thinner at -25 than the other choices.

In the 5W-20 versus 5W-30 category, then 5W-20 "fuel economy" oil is second best (behind the 0W-20)

 

[BrocLuno]

Originally Posted By: KlooksKleek

1: The dealership oil changes are too expensive and they don't use synth oil.
2: I do NOT have a problem saving receipts, but if I purchase 0W as many here recommend, then the receipt will show that. The factory spec is 5W.


Which is why I wouldn't do it. Buy the best 5W-20 you can for winter use, and maybe 5W-30 for summer where HTHS means something with teh AC blowing full and 100* outside ...

You know what needs doing. You're drawn to the 0W stuff as it's cool. But does your car have ANY problem starting? And if it does, go through the ground side wiring and look for iffy connections. That's where a problem may lie ...

 

[KlooksKleek]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Originally Posted By: KlooksKleek

1: The dealership oil changes are too expensive and they don't use synth oil.
2: I do NOT have a problem saving receipts, but if I purchase 0W as many here recommend, then the receipt will show that. The factory spec is 5W.


Which is why I wouldn't do it. Buy the best 5W-20 you can for winter use, and maybe 5W-30 for summer where HTHS means something with teh AC blowing full and 100* outside ...

You know what needs doing. You're drawn to the 0W stuff as it's cool. But does your car have ANY problem starting? And if it does, go through the ground side wiring and look for iffy connections. That's where a problem may lie ...


No problem starting, Broc, just wondering which of the two different flavors of the oil I prefer would save some cold-start wear over the other. Seems like any 5W synthetic is gonna be just fine in my climate, and that's what I need to know (5W, as I've stated many times here, is what I want because of OEM spec until I am out of warranty).

 

[Greggy_D]

Originally Posted By: car51
Tig1 uses M1 0w20 AFE in a 5w20 spec 2007 Focus

Why does this shock you?