Best oil for BMW 335i N54 twin turbo?

[reb03]

Hi everyone. I've been reading and searching for the answers to my questions but haven't found any that provide much comfort. I have a 2007 335i. Normal operating oil temps for this car are ~240 degrees F. But on the track the oil gets warm...really warm. At Willow Springs Raceway at my last driving school oil temps reached 285-290 degrees.

BMW recommends the BMW 5w30 sold at dealers. M1 0w40 is also approved but read it tends to shear rapidly and the engine runs warm. The owners manual calls for 5w30 or 5w40 depending on climate but none of the US dealers seem to carry 5w40.

After reading this http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil Tests.pdf I'm leaning towards Royal Purple 5w40 but there's also Amsoil 5w40, Redline, Valvoline Synpower 5w40 and others. Amsoil claims BMW LL-04 but isn't approved while Synpower is BMW LL-04 and awiting final approval.

Do any of you have any thoughts or recommendations? Thanks for the input.

 

[benjamming]

This is a DI engine so fuel dilution may be an issue as well. I suggest you read the thread in the Used Oil Analysis from RI_RS4 about his Audi and the help he received from Terry Dyson. He spent a fair amount of money & shared the wisdom with us. The thread is a sticky at the top of the page.

 

[VeeDubb]

All those 5w-40s you named will also shear, some worse than Mobil1 0w-40. Only Amsoil is likely to hold it's viscosity, but then you have to deal with warranty issues. But yeah, you should definitely check out the RS_4 thread to learn as much as you can about DI technologies. Unfortunately, there is no easy answer if you are concerned about the powertrain warranty. Too bad you aren't leasing

 

[JAG]

Two high temperature tests on RLI 5W-40 conducted by myself and another BITOG member have found the same result. RLI 5W-40 formed globules (my word) / scum (other member's word) in the tests. It's either sludge or separation of components. No way would I use that oil in a high temperature turbo engine.

Keep the oil change intervals short and use BMW 5W-30 or something similar. Make sure to use only BMW approved oils.

 

[VeeDubb]

Jag,
I recall that there was some anecdotal evidence from past threads that the BMW 5w-30 caused varnished and gunk on the filler cap and hole. Do you remember those threads or have you heard of this?

 

[JAG]

Yes, I've seen it with my own eyes too in my office mate's BMW. He does 15K mile OCIs with BMW 5W-30 which is way too long. The engine's internals are filthy. It's good oil but isn't capable of the miracles that BMW's OCI recommendations call for.

 

[Terry]

JAG,this is not personal but I must share that once again you are quoting back yard BBQ testing that has little relevance in the real world.

reb03, I have customers running BMW5w30, M1 0w40 all with the same effect, the wear control is good if we change the oil at 1000 mile intervals but the deposit formation from REAL volatility issues are slowly damaging the engines. I just worked a 07 335 Biturbo yesterday USING ASTM lab tests on the used oil and M1 0w40 went from VOA flash of 430+F to 280 F in 1150 miles, oil sheared to 12.1 cSt and fuel was at 1.99% by IR. Amsoil has not been tested in this engine yet. Because Amsoil is a traditional based PAO I predict similar results to the M1 0w40 which is still one of few M1 products that can perform reasonably well.

JAG, you are one of the worst posters ( im-posters) here because you post definitive commentary using an acknowledged limited data base, no training/experience in lubricants technology and then founded on kitchen sink and backyard BBQ sourced data. Please do BITOG a favor and disclose the sources of your definitive data so the uninitiated reader will be forewarned. You exasperate the professional and should know better since you are an engineer!

Its time BITOG policed the quality touted here or stop being a oil analysis source site for the consumer.

I have yet to see a UOA from a reputable source post poor results using ANY of the RLI BIOSYN formulas. The chemistry is that good.

I share that sincerely.

Terry

 

[Terry]

Correction that BMW 335i mentioned above dropped to 240F closed cup flash in 1150 miles.

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

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Two high temperature tests on RLI 5W-40 conducted by myself and another BITOG member have found the same result. RLI 5W-40 formed globules (my word) / scum (other member's word) in the tests. It's either sludge or separation of components. No way would I use that oil in a high temperature turbo engine.

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JAG, I won't be as hard on you as Terry, but in this case I have to agree with him. To recommend someone not use an oil based on how that oil behaved when being boiled on a backyard gas grill is ridiculous to the point of absurdity.

Backyard grilling oil samples is fun and shows only one thing: How the oil behaves when being cooked on a backyard grill. That's it.

 

[JAG]

There was no boiling, no barbecue, and no gas grill. I've posted many times how I test, so won't go into again. I posted this matter as a warning, but if anyone wants to ignore it, that's at their own risk. Other than the insults, it's no sweat off my back.

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

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There was no boiling, no barbecue, and no gas grill. I've posted many times how I test, so won't go into again. I posted this matter as a warning, but if anyone wants to ignore it, that's at their own risk. Other than the insults, it's no sweat off my back.

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Backyard grill or "hot plate," the point is still the same: Such tests are useless for determining how an oil will perform in an engine. And I suspect you know this.

 

[JAG]

Yes I know that a good high temperature test result does not mean that the oil will perform well in an engine. But I think you will agree that a very bad high temperature test result (320F...not insanely hot and wasn't tested for very long) does not bode well for performance in a hot running turbocharged engine.

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

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Yes I know that a good high temperature test result does not mean that the oil will perform well in an engine. But I think you will agree that a very bad high temperature test result (320F...not insanely hot and wasn't tested for very long) does not bode well for performance in a hot running turbocharged engine.

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I would agree. I won't agree, however, that your testing methodology constitutes a valid high temp testing protocol for determining how well a motor oil performs at high temps in an internal combustion engine.

 

[JAG]

I agree with that. M1 0W-40 does very well in my high temperature tests but it doesn't always do so well in some engine applications...this BMW 335i application, probably included. The "0" and the "40" is just a bad combination here.

 

[reb03]

I admittedly know very little about the various oil types and compositions but am trying to learn from vast resources afforded by this site. Frankly, I have never been too worried about oil since my change intervals have always been in the 5k-7.5k mile range (pre-synthetics they were 3k) and I never considered BMW’s ridiculous 15k + intervals.

But this hot running twin turbo is different and I drive my car on track where extremely high oil temps occur several times a year. Interestingly, the ECU in the 335i doesn’t cut power (limp home mode) until the oil temp reaches 304 degrees. Given this and the shear of the BMW 5w30 and M1 0w40 it seems I should certainly change the oil both before and after every track day.

Given 1k mile OCIs are unrealistic, it sounds like you all think the BMW 5w30 or M1 0w40 is the way to go, at least for now. No Red Line, RP, PP, Synpower…? I was really hoping for at least a 5w40 with less shear for added protection on track days.

Again, thanks for the help.

 

[reb03]

Any thoughts about GC in this engine?

 

[benjamming]

RLI 5W40 would be my recommendation or at least a good starting point.

 

[Terry]

RLI BIOSYN is the only oil I am seeing work well in DI RS4 or 2.0 Audi or the BMW bi turbo 3.0 I6 in the 335I. They both are killing every oil I used to recommend. I am not kidding and have no interest in promoting one oil over the other.

reb03, the M1 0w40 should not be run longer than 1000 miles to be safe.. Audi and BMW know they are having problems but are marketing tied to certain LARGE oil company that sponsors BITOG thus they cannot speak out about it.

GC 0w30 green might work well here but the fuels chemistries have changed so much that it may be out of date to protect as well as I would want to see.

I asked the BMW 335i customer to post his Dyson raw data here and chime in, whether he is crazy enough to do that I can't say.

The raw trended data will scare you straight.

JAG, I think you intend well but are at BITOG you post like we are in a circular firing squad, we all get shot...

You are a smart and highly trained fella please post that way, we need people like you to help here.

TD

 

[G-MAN]

Is the 3.0 biturbo BMW engine direct injection like the RS4 V8?

 

[benjamming]

What is factory fill on these DI engines?