Best oil for Audi 4.0 twin turbo

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6
So first post, been doing alot of research and learning about oil more. It seems to be pretty important for audi twin turbo 4.0 engines to get something exceptionally good. Many a turbo has been blown pre 50k on these as well due to the sludge and oil screen issues. People have seemed to resolved it with engine flushes and 5k or less oil change intervals. They also run very hot with lots of heat soak and turbo coking potential and if you drive hard consistently oil disappears uncomfortably fast and is said to be "normal". Audi U.S. recommendation is vw 502 505 5w40 high saps HTHS 3.5+ with up to 10k changes.

VW 504 507 low saps is looking like it is less likely to create sludge issues so I'm naturally interested but its not recommended in the U.S. I heard that Audi in Europe recommended they use 504/507 5w30 in these with low saps as though this is what its meant to run on but I'm not sure this isn't a rumor. Is it really ok to do low saps stuff here in the U.S. with the 5k change?

Its worth mentioning I will mod the car too and beat on it frequently I'm sure (my 2nd modded 4.0) and its getting way up there in horsepower and heat with the two turbos so I'm naturally a bit concerned about going the extra mile. I'd like to stay within the recommended oil but it seems like its sub optimal for this car at best.

So if I stick with recommended vw 502/505 I'm thinking motul 5w40 x clean gen2 to or x cess gen2 not sure which is better.

Also thinking racing oil might be best with 3k change 5w40 motul 300v or torco sr5r. I am skeptical/nervous about using race oil for daily but I do drive really hard alot so maybe its best

I wish there was something more clear cut. Any ideas?
 

jw9013

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6
Since you're interested in Group V oils (like the Motul 300V), how about Amsoil Signature Series 0w40? It's a Group IV/V oil and quite stout.
I actually looked at that exact one and almost bought it thinking I had found the one. It sounds perfect for this car. Extra cleaning power and good for turbos. But I held off and kept looking around the numbers seemed unusual to me as someone who doesn't understand them so I was leery and there is little feedback about it compared to the 5w30. With so few approvals ect. so I figured better to avoid it in the end.
 
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11,674
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You have to take several things into consideration here.
First of all, you are not getting "way up in heat." If you are doing serious tuning I am assuming you will go bigger coolant radiator and oil radiator (I am assuming that engine has oil radiator).
VW504.00/507.00 will do OK, but since you are going tuning route you are right to look for other options. But, you have to be careful with racing oils. They are not that good when it comes to oxidation limits. They are designed for shorter use. If you are not on track with your car, I would go with street oil. Motul X-Cess 5W40 Gen2 has really good HTHS of 3.8 and X-Clean 5W40 Gen2 has HTHS of 3.9. If engine is prone to sludge, I would go this route, oils that are developed with better oxidation limits, specifically those carrying BMW LL 01 or 04 approvals as BMW approvals are most stringent when it comes to oxidation.
 
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Here in the UK we put in 504/507 0w30 and our bulk oil is Shell. And R8 gets the same across all engines.
 

jw9013

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6
I'm thinking maybe redline 5w30 5w40 or euro versions. Noack looks super good and its nice and thick so maybe that is the way to go. It looks like redline does engineer it for the street interval and has alot mentioning the oem approvals maybe this is the one.

This car is crazy hot. Even with heat exchangers and big coolant pumps before the end of the pull its already heat soaked. I've never seen anything come close to this thing with heat and I've had several turbo and supercharged cars. There are no aftermarket solutions besides meth that do anything really that I know of. Oil temp is around 200 driving it like a grandma and will quickly skyrocket. Also hot where I live and I like to beat on it repeatedly so I was thinking maybe racing oil is a must.

So with 504 you just change the oil at max 5k miles and your probably good right? It's not supposed to be combined low sulphur fuel in the U.S. so it ruins the low sap oil well before 10k from what I'm getting. I heard in europe even 504 doesn't make it to 10k mile changes. I really want to make 504 oil work but this bothers me and makes me want to avoid it too. It sure sounds like it makes less of a carbon problem though and is generally higher quality.
 

jw9013

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Up to 10k usually less. Redline is looking really good. 5w40 is some thick stuff I wonder how bad it is for short drives. Its like you almost get a happy medium between race oil and street oil with all the additives for a long interval and the number of oem approvals they claim it works for.
 
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I have a 2014 Audi S8 with the 4.0 TT. I have been using Mobil One Euro 0w40 and oil changes every 5k. So far, so good!
Audi S8 Bait Stand.jpg
 
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Why don’t you get an oil sample tested after a couple of thousand miles and see how the oil is doing? As we don’t run 5w40 in the 4.0 over here I carnt comment what it’s like real world but I can say I’ve never had a problem with carbon build up or sludge and we get a lot of tuned cars in, but it’s not the same climate as you. Our pump oil used to be Mobil 1 504/507 and changed to Shell 18/24 months ago for some reason VAG over here went from 5w30 to 0w30
 
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Why don’t you get an oil sample tested after a couple of thousand miles and see how the oil is doing? As we don’t run 5w40 in the 4.0 over here I carnt comment what it’s like real world but I can say I’ve never had a problem with carbon build up or sludge and we get a lot of tuned cars in, but it’s not the same climate as you. Our pump oil used to be Mobil 1 504/507 and changed to Shell 18/24 months ago for some reason VAG over here went from 5w30 to 0w30
Is the Shell sold as OEM oil there? Or just what your dealer uses as bulk?
 
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11,674
Location
Colorado Springs
I'm thinking maybe redline 5w30 5w40 or euro versions. Noack looks super good and its nice and thick so maybe that is the way to go. It looks like redline does engineer it for the street interval and has alot mentioning the oem approvals maybe this is the one.

This car is crazy hot. Even with heat exchangers and big coolant pumps before the end of the pull its already heat soaked. I've never seen anything come close to this thing with heat and I've had several turbo and supercharged cars. There are no aftermarket solutions besides meth that do anything really that I know of. Oil temp is around 200 driving it like a grandma and will quickly skyrocket. Also hot where I live and I like to beat on it repeatedly so I was thinking maybe racing oil is a must.

So with 504 you just change the oil at max 5k miles and your probably good right? It's not supposed to be combined low sulphur fuel in the U.S. so it ruins the low sap oil well before 10k from what I'm getting. I heard in europe even 504 doesn't make it to 10k mile changes. I really want to make 504 oil work but this bothers me and makes me want to avoid it too. It sure sounds like it makes less of a carbon problem though and is generally higher quality.
There is a lot to dissect here that it is actually not a problem.
First of all, oil temperature of 200 is not a problem. What is maximum oil temperature you have seen? Oil temperature in my BMW is around 220 in normal cycle. BMW electric coolant pumps work in such way that they keep very high temperature in normal driving (increases efficiency) and try to lower temperature during spirited driving. I have seen temperatures on track in my BMW as high as 293 where DME cuts power.
If you think that VW504.00/507.00 oils are not capable of handling that kind of temperature, you are wrong. Ambient temperature is also not big issue. Cooling wise, driving in Arizona in summer is less of an issue than here in Colorado because of altitude.
You really need to tell us what are temperatures you are seeing? Saying: I have never seen this hot vehicle is not telling us anything. My VW Tiguan is oven, it is so hot that in winter warms up 3-car garage. SO, we need numbers. But, if you numbers are anywhere 200-240, sleep well.
 
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Is the Shell sold as OEM oil there? Or just what your dealer uses as bulk?
Yes the bottles come boxed and when it’s opened most of them are the black Audi ones but you get random box’s packed as Shell when they are running out. It all comes through the VAG order system.
 

jw9013

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I have a 2014 Audi S8 with the 4.0 TT. I have been using Mobil One Euro 0w40 and oil changes every 5k. So far, so good! View attachment 37887
Lovely s8, I have a 2014 S8 daytona gray on the way. Currently driving 2013 stage 3 s6.
Why don’t you get an oil sample tested after a couple of thousand miles and see how the oil is doing? As we don’t run 5w40 in the 4.0 over here I carnt comment what it’s like real world but I can say I’ve never had a problem with carbon build up or sludge and we get a lot of tuned cars in, but it’s not the same climate as you. Our pump oil used to be Mobil 1 504/507 and changed to Shell 18/24 months ago for some reason VAG over here went from 5w30 to 0w30
Its good info for me here in the US to hear about someone using 5w30 504. I assume it has 3.5 or higher HTHS it seems all vw 504 does so far.

There is a lot to dissect here that it is actually not a problem.
First of all, oil temperature of 200 is not a problem. What is maximum oil temperature you have seen? Oil temperature in my BMW is around 220 in normal cycle. BMW electric coolant pumps work in such way that they keep very high temperature in normal driving (increases efficiency) and try to lower temperature during spirited driving. I have seen temperatures on track in my BMW as high as 293 where DME cuts power.
If you think that VW504.00/507.00 oils are not capable of handling that kind of temperature, you are wrong. Ambient temperature is also not big issue. Cooling wise, driving in Arizona in summer is less of an issue than here in Colorado because of altitude.
You really need to tell us what are temperatures you are seeing? Saying: I have never seen this hot vehicle is not telling us anything. My VW Tiguan is oven, it is so hot that in winter warms up 3-car garage. SO, we need numbers. But, if you numbers are anywhere 200-240, sleep well.
Yea temps 200-240. My temp concerns are also after you shut it off and just generally turbos burning oil. I think turbo coking contributes after it sits. Just seems like an unusual deal with the heat/sludge and I need something good ect.

My issue with vw 504/507 is that it's low saps? Doesn't that mean you have to change it alot sooner or it will degrade because of high sulphur fuel in the US? It seems to be the best maybe about carbon issues and could be worth it. I really don't understand very well how much of an issue this is is part of one of my questions. Sounds like you have to change the oil by 5k or your taking risks or something
 
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11,674
Location
Colorado Springs
Lovely s8, I have a 2014 S8 daytona gray on the way. Currently driving 2013 stage 3 s6.

Its good info for me here in the US to hear about someone using 5w30 504. I assume it has 3.5 or higher HTHS it seems all vw 504 does so far.


Yea temps 200-240. My temp concerns are also after you shut it off and just generally turbos burning oil. I think turbo coking contributes after it sits. Just seems like an unusual deal with the heat/sludge and I need something good ect.

My issue with vw 504/507 is that it's low saps? Doesn't that mean you have to change it alot sooner or it will degrade because of high sulphur fuel in the US? It seems to be the best maybe about carbon issues and could be worth it. I really don't understand very well how much of an issue this is is part of one of my questions. Sounds like you have to change the oil by 5k or your taking risks or something
First of all, VW504.00/507.00 are all HTHS 3.5 minimum. They must be to be approved.
Second, you do not have to worry about turbo cooking oil. Your engine has aux. water pump(s). They will be working after you shut off engine if they need to cool it off. Your turbos are water cooled. Also, your oil temperatures are same like in my Tiguan, and I am using Mobil1 ESP 0W30.
VW504.00/507.00 were an issue in DI engines before 2017. After 01/2017 the US is using ultra low sulfur gas (ULSG). That means these oils like VW504.00 are OK to use. If you worry about it, you can most definitely go higher SAPS route like Castrol Edge 0W40, Motul 5W40 X-Cess Gen2. Personally, I would stay away from M1 0W40 in that engine as it has very high Sulfated Ash levels (I use it in my BMW, but my BMW is port injected). You really do not want oil with too much SAPS in DI engine as it will leave more carbon build up on valves. That is why low-SAPS oils are used in engines like that, among other reasons. Maybe happy medium would be Motul 5W40 X-Clean Gen2 which is Mid-SAPS oil and has very high HTHS of 3.9.
 

jw9013

Thread starter
Messages
6
First of all, VW504.00/507.00 are all HTHS 3.5 minimum. They must be to be approved.
Second, you do not have to worry about turbo cooking oil. Your engine has aux. water pump(s). They will be working after you shut off engine if they need to cool it off. Your turbos are water cooled. Also, your oil temperatures are same like in my Tiguan, and I am using Mobil1 ESP 0W30.
VW504.00/507.00 were an issue in DI engines before 2017. After 01/2017 the US is using ultra low sulfur gas (ULSG). That means these oils like VW504.00 are OK to use. If you worry about it, you can most definitely go higher SAPS route like Castrol Edge 0W40, Motul 5W40 X-Cess Gen2. Personally, I would stay away from M1 0W40 in that engine as it has very high Sulfated Ash levels (I use it in my BMW, but my BMW is port injected). You really do not want oil with too much SAPS in DI engine as it will leave more carbon build up on valves. That is why low-SAPS oils are used in engines like that, among other reasons. Maybe happy medium would be Motul 5W40 X-Clean Gen2 which is Mid-SAPS oil and has very high HTHS of 3.9.
Good info to know thank you. Mid saps +/- range seems quite alot more viable or maybe better then. I did not realize how much ash was in the 0w40 m1

It can be considered normal to burn up to around a quart every 1k if you drive hard alot in these which sucks. My '13 stage 3 does this but it doesn't burn at all when I don't drive hard.

Redline 5w40 Euro with noack of 6 and extra thick HTHS 4.3 might help with oil consumption. Sounds like its low to mid saps but no info. It seems like its a hybrid between racing/street oil that took euro approvals into consideration. I wonder what the draw backs are
 
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11,674
Location
Colorado Springs
Good info to know thank you. Mid saps +/- range seems quite alot more viable or maybe better then. I did not realize how much ash was in the 0w40 m1

It can be considered normal to burn up to around a quart every 1k if you drive hard alot in these which sucks. My '13 stage 3 does this but it doesn't burn at all when I don't drive hard.

Redline 5w40 Euro with noack of 6 and extra thick HTHS 4.3 might help with oil consumption. Sounds like its low to mid saps but no info. It seems like its a hybrid between racing/street oil that took euro approvals into consideration. I wonder what the draw backs are
Redline 5W40 Euro is probably Mid-SAPS considering it is suitable (not approved) for MB29.51 and LL04. Those specifications are indication whether oils are higher or lower SAPS (High SAPS: MB229.5, Mid/Low SAPS-MB229.51/52).
Problem with Redline that it is Ester based, which is good in one way, but not really good for longer OCI's. Also, when you go really high HTHS take into consideration three things:
1. More resistance=more heat.
2. Turbos will need more time to spool
3. Mpg will suffer.

Tuned VW engines do burn some oil (and regular ones too). If you are not going on track, you really do not need Redline, unless that will make you sleep better at night. 5W30 would cut it too, HTHS 3.7.
 
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