I just wanted to thank everyone for your input and post a photo of the truck you helped better a life for:
Best oil for 1993 Land Rover NAS Defender 110
- Thread starter Nomad110
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Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Believe it or not I am (or was) a factory trained (in England) Land Rover tech, now moved on to other things. I was hot and heavy into Rover things when your D110 was being sold and I've worked on a lot of them. And built a lot of Rover V8 engines, including some for performance applications. Had Land Rovers myself from the '70s into the late '90s. Here are a few things to ponder in freeform style... you can google the names I mention:
The two main weaknesses in the Rover V8 related to lubricants are the oil pump and the camshaft. The oil pump consists of steel gears running in an aluminum front housing. Guess which part wears first when dirty oil flows thru the pump? They get loose and oil flow slows (it's a low-pressure, high-volume system). The cam uses a small diameter blank and so the lobes have a less surface area than many other cams, so the surface loading is higher, resulting in more potential wear and the need for better lubrication. The OE material was so-so and the hardening equally so (I got rich replacing Rover V8 cams in the '80s). By the time your 3.9L engine came along, they were better and fairly reliable. Aftermarket cams (you didn't say which brand and spec cam was installed) are usually a lot better in the materials area than the OE but you are still faced with the low surface area problem. The cure for the camshaft is to make SURE you use a high zinc (ZDDP) oil, at least SL levels of zinc. Any API SM or SN rated oil is suspect (this engine is a special case). A good HDEO (dual rated for diesel and gas) will serve and many of boutique oils have SL levels of ZDDP. ZDDP levels will deal somewhat with the oil pump wear issue too, but using the best oil filtration you can get and keeping the oil clean also helps. That would mean a high end full-flow filter (Amsoil, Royal Purple, M-1, Bosch Distance Plus to name a few). If you want to play "perfect world" this scenario could include a bypass system (I like the Pareto TopDog system for simplicity and the Racor ABS system for efficiency but there are other good ones). If the oil in the sump is cleaner, the oil pump doesn't have to suck in as much contamination (remember it gets dirty oil straight from the crankcase).
Viscosity: I personally think a 40 grade is needlessly heavy in a Rover V8 in your climate. I base my viscosity choices on engine oil temp and I have checked enough to know Rover V8s run fairly cool generally (no more than 200F sump temp, except in extreme conditions). Overall I think a thickish 30 grade oil is more than sufficient but I wouldn't argue against a 0W40 or 5W40 syn oil with high ZDDP. There are some high ZDDP 0W30 and 5W30 HDEOs (Shell and Chevron both have HDEOs in 0W30 and Amsoil's HDD is a 5W30... Castrol Elixion is also a 5W30).
You are wasting time and money with frequent air filter replacements. First off, air filter efficiency improves as it loads up. Second, the process of changing the fitler can introduce dirt, third there is no mileage increase with a new filter (the proof is here: Air Filters & Fuel Economy. My advice: mount an air filter restriction gauge and replace it when it reaches 2.5kPA restriction and not before. Some monitors to consider are the FilterMinder and the Donaldson Informer. They mount just behind the filter in the intake tract. Clean air is part of the clean oil equation. If I had a D110, I would look into some high efficiency air filter options. I remember the OE Rover filters as being pretty substandard. I never saw any efficiency tests, but the rubber deteriorated quickly in heat. I don't know what the current state of the OE parts or replacements. Beyond the oiled cotton gauze options (K&N, et al) I don't know of any high efficiency direct replacements for LRs (I'm a bit out of the loop). And FYI, oiled cotton gauze are not "high efficiency" (though they are high flow), being about as good as modern standard media. There are some Donaldson PowerCore filter assemblies that look easily adapted to the D110 and that's about the most efficient filter you can get and delivers good flow if sized properly. Should be relatively easy to adapt to your snorkel as well.
Related to air filtration is the crankcase breather setup. On the stock engine, there is a cheesy foam filter on on valve cover in an equally cheesy snapped-on plastic housing. Replace it with something more substantial and efficient. I can't tell you haw may Rovers I saw where the filter had popped off and allowed the crankcase to suck in dirty air. I used to installed a small, generic crankcase breather filter found in high performance shops (looked kinda like a little K&N), but there may be something better now. For "frequent floaters," I used to do a remote mount higher and at the back of the engine compartment.
Mobil 1 5w-30hm might be a good alternative as well? Certainly easily found, meets SL add levels,help with the potential rear main leak, "thickish" and high detergent levels.
Believe it or not I am (or was) a factory trained (in England) Land Rover tech, now moved on to other things. I was hot and heavy into Rover things when your D110 was being sold and I've worked on a lot of them. And built a lot of Rover V8 engines, including some for performance applications. Had Land Rovers myself from the '70s into the late '90s. Here are a few things to ponder in freeform style... you can google the names I mention:
The two main weaknesses in the Rover V8 related to lubricants are the oil pump and the camshaft. The oil pump consists of steel gears running in an aluminum front housing. Guess which part wears first when dirty oil flows thru the pump? They get loose and oil flow slows (it's a low-pressure, high-volume system). The cam uses a small diameter blank and so the lobes have a less surface area than many other cams, so the surface loading is higher, resulting in more potential wear and the need for better lubrication. The OE material was so-so and the hardening equally so (I got rich replacing Rover V8 cams in the '80s). By the time your 3.9L engine came along, they were better and fairly reliable. Aftermarket cams (you didn't say which brand and spec cam was installed) are usually a lot better in the materials area than the OE but you are still faced with the low surface area problem. The cure for the camshaft is to make SURE you use a high zinc (ZDDP) oil, at least SL levels of zinc. Any API SM or SN rated oil is suspect (this engine is a special case). A good HDEO (dual rated for diesel and gas) will serve and many of boutique oils have SL levels of ZDDP. ZDDP levels will deal somewhat with the oil pump wear issue too, but using the best oil filtration you can get and keeping the oil clean also helps. That would mean a high end full-flow filter (Amsoil, Royal Purple, M-1, Bosch Distance Plus to name a few). If you want to play "perfect world" this scenario could include a bypass system (I like the Pareto TopDog system for simplicity and the Racor ABS system for efficiency but there are other good ones). If the oil in the sump is cleaner, the oil pump doesn't have to suck in as much contamination (remember it gets dirty oil straight from the crankcase).
Viscosity: I personally think a 40 grade is needlessly heavy in a Rover V8 in your climate. I base my viscosity choices on engine oil temp and I have checked enough to know Rover V8s run fairly cool generally (no more than 200F sump temp, except in extreme conditions). Overall I think a thickish 30 grade oil is more than sufficient but I wouldn't argue against a 0W40 or 5W40 syn oil with high ZDDP. There are some high ZDDP 0W30 and 5W30 HDEOs (Shell and Chevron both have HDEOs in 0W30 and Amsoil's HDD is a 5W30... Castrol Elixion is also a 5W30).
You are wasting time and money with frequent air filter replacements. First off, air filter efficiency improves as it loads up. Second, the process of changing the fitler can introduce dirt, third there is no mileage increase with a new filter (the proof is here: Air Filters & Fuel Economy. My advice: mount an air filter restriction gauge and replace it when it reaches 2.5kPA restriction and not before. Some monitors to consider are the FilterMinder and the Donaldson Informer. They mount just behind the filter in the intake tract. Clean air is part of the clean oil equation. If I had a D110, I would look into some high efficiency air filter options. I remember the OE Rover filters as being pretty substandard. I never saw any efficiency tests, but the rubber deteriorated quickly in heat. I don't know what the current state of the OE parts or replacements. Beyond the oiled cotton gauze options (K&N, et al) I don't know of any high efficiency direct replacements for LRs (I'm a bit out of the loop). And FYI, oiled cotton gauze are not "high efficiency" (though they are high flow), being about as good as modern standard media. There are some Donaldson PowerCore filter assemblies that look easily adapted to the D110 and that's about the most efficient filter you can get and delivers good flow if sized properly. Should be relatively easy to adapt to your snorkel as well.
Related to air filtration is the crankcase breather setup. On the stock engine, there is a cheesy foam filter on on valve cover in an equally cheesy snapped-on plastic housing. Replace it with something more substantial and efficient. I can't tell you haw may Rovers I saw where the filter had popped off and allowed the crankcase to suck in dirty air. I used to installed a small, generic crankcase breather filter found in high performance shops (looked kinda like a little K&N), but there may be something better now. For "frequent floaters," I used to do a remote mount higher and at the back of the engine compartment.
Mobil 1 5w-30hm might be a good alternative as well? Certainly easily found, meets SL add levels,help with the potential rear main leak, "thickish" and high detergent levels.
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Just curious...why do you think M1 would help with the rear main seal anymore then any other oil? Also it's ZDDP package is below 1000 when it's recommended that we need at least 1200 for these engines.
He mentioned M1 High Mileage (hm) not the regular stuff. The 5w30 and 10w30 grades are SL rated and contain higher levels of ZDDP. The 10w30 is also ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 rated.
The M1HM 10w40 is SM rated because higher levels of ZDDP are allowed on 10w40 and thicker grades.
The M1HM 10w40 is SM rated because higher levels of ZDDP are allowed on 10w40 and thicker grades.
Originally Posted By: Nomad110
Just curious...why do you think M1 would help with the rear main seal anymore then any other oil? Also it's ZDDP package is below 1000 when it's recommended that we need at least 1200 for these engines.
Here is a good link about the zinc and phosphorous levels in M1 oils. The M1 5w30HM I suggested is at 1100 for zinc.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf
Just curious...why do you think M1 would help with the rear main seal anymore then any other oil? Also it's ZDDP package is below 1000 when it's recommended that we need at least 1200 for these engines.
Here is a good link about the zinc and phosphorous levels in M1 oils. The M1 5w30HM I suggested is at 1100 for zinc.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf
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Very nice machine. A true collectors piece these days. What number is it?
BTW, I don't remember any particular rear main seal "issues" beyond the usual quality control, or lack thereof, in assembly. When I saw a rear main leak, it was usually an obvious installation error. If there is a known issue now, I guess it postdates my time. IIRC, the seal were German made. I still have one in a junk box, I'll look.
Funny story. One recurring problem on Rover V8s of the '80s and early '90s leakwise was the oil pan. This was a design issue because they were using RTV from the factory with a pan designed to have a gasket. They virtually all leaked. While fixing one under warranty, I found a cloth work glove in the oil pan. Big yuks around the shop for sure! When I shortly thereafter went to England for some of my training, I brought that glove, in a large ziplock bag with the VIN and engine number on it.
When you go to the factory for training, you have the obligatory tour of manufacturing facility. At that time, LR manufactured most major components there, or nearby, so you could see everything being built. I had the glove in my fanny pack so at the appropriate point on the engine line, I chimed in with... "Oh by the way, somebody here lost this and I thought I'd return it." It was much like noisy flatulence at church. It was the same type of glove the workers were wear, so it's source was obvious. With a disdainful look on his face, one of the engineers collected the glove and promised to "follow up." To their credit, they did later tell me the engine number told them whose glove it was and that the problem had been "dealt" with. Given the free reign the union had there at that time, I doubt much was done (I could tell you other stories). At that time, I believe only mass murder or child molestation were true firing offenses.
One of the things I noted at the Solihull factory (then) was the presence of beer machines in the cafeteria. One wonders.....
BTW, I don't remember any particular rear main seal "issues" beyond the usual quality control, or lack thereof, in assembly. When I saw a rear main leak, it was usually an obvious installation error. If there is a known issue now, I guess it postdates my time. IIRC, the seal were German made. I still have one in a junk box, I'll look.
Funny story. One recurring problem on Rover V8s of the '80s and early '90s leakwise was the oil pan. This was a design issue because they were using RTV from the factory with a pan designed to have a gasket. They virtually all leaked. While fixing one under warranty, I found a cloth work glove in the oil pan. Big yuks around the shop for sure! When I shortly thereafter went to England for some of my training, I brought that glove, in a large ziplock bag with the VIN and engine number on it.
When you go to the factory for training, you have the obligatory tour of manufacturing facility. At that time, LR manufactured most major components there, or nearby, so you could see everything being built. I had the glove in my fanny pack so at the appropriate point on the engine line, I chimed in with... "Oh by the way, somebody here lost this and I thought I'd return it." It was much like noisy flatulence at church. It was the same type of glove the workers were wear, so it's source was obvious. With a disdainful look on his face, one of the engineers collected the glove and promised to "follow up." To their credit, they did later tell me the engine number told them whose glove it was and that the problem had been "dealt" with. Given the free reign the union had there at that time, I doubt much was done (I could tell you other stories). At that time, I believe only mass murder or child molestation were true firing offenses.
One of the things I noted at the Solihull factory (then) was the presence of beer machines in the cafeteria. One wonders.....
Haha what a great story. I have #99/500.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Very nice machine. A true collectors piece these days. What number is it?
BTW, I don't remember any particular rear main seal "issues" beyond the usual quality control, or lack thereof, in assembly. When I saw a rear main leak, it was usually an obvious installation error. If there is a known issue now, I guess it postdates my time. IIRC, the seal were German made. I still have one in a junk box, I'll look.
Funny story. One recurring problem on Rover V8s of the '80s and early '90s leakwise was the oil pan. This was a design issue because they were using RTV from the factory with a pan designed to have a gasket. They virtually all leaked. While fixing one under warranty, I found a cloth work glove in the oil pan. Big yuks around the shop for sure! When I shortly thereafter went to England for some of my training, I brought that glove, in a large ziplock bag with the VIN and engine number on it.
When you go to the factory for training, you have the obligatory tour of manufacturing facility. At that time, LR manufactured most major components there, or nearby, so you could see everything being built. I had the glove in my fanny pack so at the appropriate point on the engine line, I chimed in with... "Oh by the way, somebody here lost this and I thought I'd return it." It was much like noisy flatulence at church. It was the same type of glove the workers were wear, so it's source was obvious. With a disdainful look on his face, one of the engineers collected the glove and promised to "follow up." To their credit, they did later tell me the engine number told them whose glove it was and that the problem had been "dealt" with. Given the free reign the union had there at that time, I doubt much was done (I could tell you other stories). At that time, I believe only mass murder or child molestation were true firing offenses.
One of the things I noted at the Solihull factory (then) was the presence of beer machines in the cafeteria. One wonders.....
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Very nice machine. A true collectors piece these days. What number is it?
BTW, I don't remember any particular rear main seal "issues" beyond the usual quality control, or lack thereof, in assembly. When I saw a rear main leak, it was usually an obvious installation error. If there is a known issue now, I guess it postdates my time. IIRC, the seal were German made. I still have one in a junk box, I'll look.
Funny story. One recurring problem on Rover V8s of the '80s and early '90s leakwise was the oil pan. This was a design issue because they were using RTV from the factory with a pan designed to have a gasket. They virtually all leaked. While fixing one under warranty, I found a cloth work glove in the oil pan. Big yuks around the shop for sure! When I shortly thereafter went to England for some of my training, I brought that glove, in a large ziplock bag with the VIN and engine number on it.
When you go to the factory for training, you have the obligatory tour of manufacturing facility. At that time, LR manufactured most major components there, or nearby, so you could see everything being built. I had the glove in my fanny pack so at the appropriate point on the engine line, I chimed in with... "Oh by the way, somebody here lost this and I thought I'd return it." It was much like noisy flatulence at church. It was the same type of glove the workers were wear, so it's source was obvious. With a disdainful look on his face, one of the engineers collected the glove and promised to "follow up." To their credit, they did later tell me the engine number told them whose glove it was and that the problem had been "dealt" with. Given the free reign the union had there at that time, I doubt much was done (I could tell you other stories). At that time, I believe only mass murder or child molestation were true firing offenses.
One of the things I noted at the Solihull factory (then) was the presence of beer machines in the cafeteria. One wonders.....
Originally Posted By: Brons2
He mentioned M1 High Mileage (hm) not the regular stuff. The 5w30 and 10w30 grades are SL rated and contain higher levels of ZDDP. The 10w30 is also ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 rated.
The M1HM 10w40 is SM rated because higher levels of ZDDP are allowed on 10w40 and thicker grades.
Sorry my mistake. Problem is guys the M1 HM 5-30 doesn't have a high enough HTHS. I need at least 3.5. The redline fits every category so I think I will go with that. Thank you.
He mentioned M1 High Mileage (hm) not the regular stuff. The 5w30 and 10w30 grades are SL rated and contain higher levels of ZDDP. The 10w30 is also ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 rated.
The M1HM 10w40 is SM rated because higher levels of ZDDP are allowed on 10w40 and thicker grades.
Sorry my mistake. Problem is guys the M1 HM 5-30 doesn't have a high enough HTHS. I need at least 3.5. The redline fits every category so I think I will go with that. Thank you.
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