Best NOACK Commonly Available 0W-20 Oil (for Honda Civic 1.5T)

[Direct_Rejection]

Originally Posted by geeman789

Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection

I would consider Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 5W20 or Chevron Supreme 5W20, with a Fumoto drain valve, low profile ramps, and frequent DIY oil changes FWIW.

I don't think the brand of oil is all that important ... the PERCENTAGE of oil in the crankcase is important. Frequent changes will be of greater benefit than any flavour of the month 0w20 oil. Not sure synthetic is even required if the oil is changed at 3000 miles .

Yes. Yes. Yet Chevron Supreme is cheaper than Super Tech and a stealth stellar oil. And Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 5W20 is almost right there with Amsoil Signature Series 5W20 in Noack.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm

Originally Posted by Gokhan

All this said if 0W-20 is what is recommended, a good synthetic 5W-20 (perhaps Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 5W-20, which has a very thick base oil with almost no viscosity-index improver (VII)) is the best choice if the viscosity is a concern, as it will have a base oil even thicker than that of a synthetic 5W-30.

I've wondered about this too. When I use 20 weight in my Accord,I've used 5W20 instead of 0W20 that's recommended on the oil cap and owner's manual.

0W-20 has a better fuel economy than 5W-20. 5W-20 has -- potentially but not necessarily -- better wear protection than 0W-20. The reason 0W-20 has better fuel economy than 5W-20 is twofold: (1) Actual normal operating temperatures for engines is much less than 150 °C at which the HTHS viscosity is measured and reported. Therefore, the viscosity index (VI) will ultimately determine your normal operating viscosity much more so than the HTHS viscosity. Oils with a high VI such as 0W-20 oils will stay thin when they get colder (such as at 100 - 120 °C) and have better fuel economy under normal conditions. Likewise oil with a low VI such as 5W-20 oils with get thick when they get colder and have worse fuel economy under normal oil temperatures such as 100 - 120 °C. (2) 0W-20 has more viscosity-index improver (VII) than 5W-20, which will have more temporary shear at higher shear rates beyond 1,000,000 1/second at which the HTHS viscosity is measured, further improving the fuel economy. Regarding wear protection 5W-20 is potentially better because it runs thicker than 0W-20 in most conditions, including normal oil temperatures such as 100 - 120 °C and shear rates higher than 1,000,000 1/second, which are commonly observed in various engines parts, especially the valvetrain and timing chain. However, 0W-20 will run thicker than 5W-20 in certain low-shear and/or high-temperature conditions. If you think you have a wear-critical application, you may benefit from 5W-20, but otherwise, you will save perhaps about $50 on fuel every year with 0W-20 over 5W-20 without noticing any difference in engine wear until you sell your car.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Regarding wear protection 5W-20 is potentially better because it runs thicker than 0W-20 in most conditions, including normal oil temperatures such as 100 - 120 °C and shear rates higher than 1,000,000 1/second, which are commonly observed in various engines parts, especially the valvetrain and timing chain. However, 0W-20 will run thicker than 5W-20 in certain low-shear and/or high-temperature conditions. If you think you have a wear-critical application, you may benefit from 5W-20, but otherwise, you will save perhaps about $50 on fuel every year with 0W-20 over 5W-20 without noticing any difference in engine wear until you sell your car.

How much of that $50 savings annually is gobbled up due to costs of having to add a qt of oil every oci due to the thin 0w20 slipping past rings or valve seals as they gradually wear? So you're trading what, a net savings of $20/yr (hardly an earth shattering amount) for increased engine wear? Maybe if you're the type that trades in your ride every few years but many of us keep our cars beyond the warranty period. What then to make of all those years of using a 0w20 lube??🤔..are you in for a windfall of problems in year 6 or 11, due to years of thin oil films??

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Originally Posted by john_pifer

I am aware of the fuel dilution issues with this engine, and, if it was my car and it wasn't under warranty, I might just put Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 in it. Last time someone checked that oil a few years ago, it was 4.7% NOACK, which is one of the best NOACK ratings of ANY oil, regardless of price.

I hate to ask but how does lower Noack help with fuel dilution? By the way Noack is the last name of the German scientist who invented the method -- not an acronym -- so, it's not capitalized. Chances are that most internal-combustion engines will be direct injection in the future because of obvious performance and fuel-economy benefits. Should we lose sleep over this instead of whatever oil manufacturers recommend? All this said if 0W-20 is what is recommended, a good synthetic 5W-20 (perhaps Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 5W-20, which has a very thick base oil with almost no viscosity-index improver (VII)) is the best choice if the viscosity is a concern, as it will have a base oil even thicker than that of a synthetic 5W-30.

Fuel dilution wasn't my only concern in choosing an oil. I like low-NOACK oils in TGDI engines because their stability helps keep the intake tract clean, as well as reducing the potential for coking in the turbo.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by john_pifer

Fuel dilution wasn't my only concern in choosing an oil. I like low-NOACK oils in TGDI engines because their stability helps keep the intake tract clean, as well as reducing the potential for coking in the turbo.

Actually there are research articles published that direct-injection intake-valve deposits (IVD) are not caused by the oil vapor but caused by the oil mist, which is liquid oil droplets. Therefore, Noack volatility has no direct effect on IVD. However, higher-quality base oils reduce IVD and they also have lower Noack. You need to be careful though -- thicker base oils such as 10W-xx also have lower Noack but they are not necessarily high-quality. Moreover, 0W-xx oils tend to be made from higher-quality base oils and this might help lower the IVD despite their somewhat higher Noack. Same goes for turbo coking -- Noack has no direct effect on it. Usually the biggest culprit in turbo coking is the type and amount of viscosity-index improver (VII) used.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I wonder how different QSUD 0W20 is from QSUD 5W20?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm

I wonder how different QSUD 0W20 is from QSUD 5W20?

They are probably using the same base-stock slate (same type of base stocks, likely Group III+) with the 0W-20 using a thinner base oil and more VII than the 5W-20. For example you take 4 cSt and 8 cSt base stocks from the same base-stock slate and mix them with the right ratio into a base oil and then add the right amount of VII plus the appropriate add pack into this base oil to obtain an oil with the target xW-y.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm

I wonder how different QSUD 0W20 is from QSUD 5W20?

They are probably using the same base-stock slate (same type of base stocks, likely Group III+) with the 0W-20 using a thinner base oil and more VII than the 5W-20. For example you take 4 cSt and 8 cSt base stocks from the same base-stock slate and mix them with the right ratio into a base oil and then add the right amount of VII plus the appropriate add pack into this base oil to obtain an oil with the target xW-y.

If you had a car that specs 0W20 (my Accord),would you run 0W20 or 5W20 in the same brand?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm

If you had a car that specs 0W20 (my Accord),would you run 0W20 or 5W20 in the same brand?

That's entirely up to you. As I explained it's a compromise between fuel economy and wear protection. My 2020 Prius Prime specs TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC and it will get dealer oil changes at least for a while.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm

I wonder how different QSUD 0W20 is from QSUD 5W20?

They are probably using the same base-stock slate (same type of base stocks, likely Group III+) with the 0W-20 using a thinner base oil and more VII than the 5W-20. For example you take 4 cSt and 8 cSt base stocks from the same base-stock slate and mix them with the right ratio into a base oil and then add the right amount of VII plus the appropriate add pack into this base oil to obtain an oil with the target xW-y.

If you had a car that specs 0W20 (my Accord),would you run 0W20 or 5W20 in the same brand?

If we are talking Mobil, the 0w-20 has massively more PAO on it, so they are not blended similarly. For other brands, what Gokhan noted may be the case. There's no universal approach here, base oil selection varies significantly depending on who is doing the blending.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

If we are talking Mobil, the 0w-20 has massively more PAO on it, so they are not blended similarly. For other brands, what Gokhan noted may be the case. There's no universal approach here, base oil selection varies significantly depending on who is doing the blending.

I've been using QSUD. 5W20 currently.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

If we are talking Mobil, the 0w-20 has massively more PAO on it, so they are not blended similarly. For other brands, what Gokhan noted may be the case. There's no universal approach here, base oil selection varies significantly depending on who is doing the blending.

I've been using QSUD. 5W20 currently.

Gotcha. MSDS indicates 70-90% FT (GTL) for the most recent (SN) product. Previous MSDS (2015 and 2016) just showed 0-90% interchangeable low visc base. The 2018 MSDS for the 0w-20 says 0-90% interchangeable low visc base. If I were a betting man, I'd say Gokhan's posit is likely bang-on with respect to this product family.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

QS SB 5w30 is a D1G2 lube... you can't do that using just grp2/+. I wouldn't be surprised to learn it's got a Grp3+ GTL in there to get it D1G2 approved.

 

[Rav4H2019]

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm

If you had a car that specs 0W20 (my Accord),would you run 0W20 or 5W20 in the same brand?

That's entirely up to you. As I explained it's a compromise between fuel economy and wear protection. My 2020 Prius Prime specs TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC and it will get dealer oil changes at least for a while.

Any idea how much viscosity improvers or modifiers does m1 0w16 has ? My hybrid specs that for the usa market.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Rav4H2019

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm

If you had a car that specs 0W20 (my Accord),would you run 0W20 or 5W20 in the same brand?

That's entirely up to you. As I explained it's a compromise between fuel economy and wear protection. My 2020 Prius Prime specs TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC and it will get dealer oil changes at least for a while.

Any idea how much viscosity improvers or modifiers does m1 0w16 has ? My hybrid specs that for the usa market.

It may have close to 0, given that its MSDS shows 70-80% PAO and the narrow spread means very little, if any VII is needed, depending on base oil selection of course.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

If we are talking Mobil, the 0w-20 has massively more PAO on it, so they are not blended similarly. For other brands, what Gokhan noted may be the case. There's no universal approach here, base oil selection varies significantly depending on who is doing the blending.

I've been using QSUD. 5W20 currently.

Gotcha. MSDS indicates 70-90% FT (GTL) for the most recent (SN) product. Previous MSDS (2015 and 2016) just showed 0-90% interchangeable low visc base. The 2018 MSDS for the 0w-20 says 0-90% interchangeable low visc base. If I were a betting man, I'd say Gokhan's posit is likely bang-on with respect to this product family.

Looks to be an awesome oil! Especially for the price. That stuff is dirt cheap!

 

[Mad_Hatter]

SAE added 8 and 12 in 2015 because of the need by engine builders for more fuel efficient lubes. My guess is it's one or the other. Either way not a lot of VII's. Could it even be a straight 16 w/PPD's??

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm

I wonder how different QSUD 0W20 is from QSUD 5W20?

They are probably using the same base-stock slate (same type of base stocks, likely Group III+) with the 0W-20 using a thinner base oil and more VII than the 5W-20. For example you take 4 cSt and 8 cSt base stocks from the same base-stock slate and mix them with the right ratio into a base oil and then add the right amount of VII plus the appropriate add pack into this base oil to obtain an oil with the target xW-y.

If you had a car that specs 0W20 (my Accord),would you run 0W20 or 5W20 in the same brand?

I would run the 5w20. Even with living in the upper Midwest. Only if I lived further north would I consider a 0wXX anything, and even then a possible confirmation of a firm maybe. Not saying it is a bad thing to use a 0wXX oil, just that I don't think it is needed and doesn't bring anything great to the game to make it worth using. I never even used a 0wXX in anything when I lived in the interior of Alaska for 10 years. Never had an engine failure during that time.

 

[john_pifer]

Anyone have an idea of the percentages of basestock type in the Castrol Edge 0W-20?

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by john_pifer

Anyone have an idea of the percentages of basestock type in the Castrol Edge 0W-20?

If I had to guess the Edge oils are largely III based. Maybe some IV/V but I don't know. The 0w40 is PAO based.