edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
As I said above, mental gymnastics involved when it comes to abomination of that vehicle is something.
Best New Mid-Size SUV ?
- Thread starter ChrisD46
- Start date
I prefer to have it built right the first time, and then not need them to do anything after purchase. If I have to go back for anything--it's a failure of some sort, and I'm not happy.
Of course. But how a manufacturer handles a failure matters.
Like I said, Tundra sales are accelerating, and Tundra resale values are STILL the strongest in the segment. So it would appear this is a non-issue (or minor issue) for both current and prospective owners.
And that's because of how Toyota has handled this situation - in line with their reputation.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Nothing says minor issue than pulling cab to replace wastegate or replacing engine after 500mls.
The NHTSA made Toyota do recall:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCLRPT-24V381-6004.PDF
Ask owners of 2017-2018 Highlander or Sienna how Toyota treated them.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Toyota's frame replacement campaign was only undertaken after a massive class action lawsuit. They should have recalled all the engines that burned obscene amount of oil because they didn't have return holes/sufficient return holes in the pistons, but that never happened. This ascription of moralistic motivation to a corporate entity is absurd, they are all driven by the bottom line and will undertake whatever they feel they can get away with, this is the same no matter where the company is headquartered.
It's the brainwashed consumer/advocates that can twist GM's 6.2L engine failures, and recall, as "typical domestic junk" while simultaneously clapping like a punch-drunk seal over Toyota doing the same thing for Tundra/Sequoia, panning it as some virtuous act of morality.
To be fair, it seems "normal" for Ford to require cab-off to do a number of repairs. I don't follow Fords but I do recall "lots" of hand wringing about the issue few years ago--maybe it was just the F250 and up with the diesels? but defenders pointed out that, technically, once you pull the cab off, you gain gobs of space to do the job, much easier than leaning over fenders. It was only a detriment to DIY as dealerships had plenty of space and ability to do cab off.
Didn't Audi's have some sort of service position / setup that was similar? remove a bunch of body parts, but then much easier to work on?
For free.
Not sure what else to say man. There can be voluntary recalls issued by the manufacturer when they discover a defect, or recalls that are mandated by the gov (NHTSA) after they do their own investigation.
In this case it was clearly a voluntary recall initiated by Toyota. Look into it.
There's no safety issue with oil consumption. So why would there be a safety recall?
Frame replacement there's a bit more of a safety issue although still, that degradation happens very very slowly. Any routine inspection is going to uncover a rotting frame years before it actually becomes a safety issue.
Of course Toyota is a for profit corporation at the end of the day. From a customer satisfaction perspective you have to evaluate them against their peers / competitor manufacturers (like GM). It's all relative. This is why as a company your reputation matters - and why Toyota did the right thing in this case - to retain that customer loyalty / trust.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I'm saying if Toyota was this beacon of moralistic purity that many choose to paint it as, they'd have recalled these engines due to this clear and well-known defect. They didn't.
But it was a class action lawsuit that got them to proceed with the replacement campaign, while advocates pretend that Toyota did so of their own volition, which is revisionist nonsense.
Right, so why the inconsistency? Toyota is doing nothing different from GM here with the engine failures; both marques are handling it the same, but that's not how it's presented by the "true believers" who paint Toyota's actions as those of a responsible corporate entity "doing the right thing" (like they claim Toyota always does) while GM's is evidence of "typical domestic junk". It's an appalling double standard that exists because Toyota has managed to establish a reputation of omnipotence, and that they can do no wrong and there's always an excuse or explain-away for when they do screw up (just like everybody else, who isn't viewed through this lens of perpetual perfection).
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
The Super Duty's had cab off as pretty much standard "step 1" for a lot of engine bay repairs. For Audi, yes, there were cars where step 1 was to remove the front of the car.
I suppose they could have issued an extended service campaign or extended warranty. But then again plenty of cars burn lots and lots of oil - it's just more unusual and unexpected of a Toyota. But a recall was never going to happen - recalls are for safety issues of which oil burning is not.
Both companies failed building their engines. But, back to my previous point - it's how a company handles a failure that matters.
And no, they are not handling it the same.
GM scans for a specific DTC. If code is absent (99%+ chance, given these almost always lock up with no symptoms beforehand), you get an oil change to 0w-40, and a new oil cap (that says use 0w-40, lol), and an extended warranty. "Come back if your engine blows".
Toyota gives you a free engine. No questions asked.
Gotta be a toyota. Get the one you like to drive.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
It was a mechanical defect, yes, it should have warranted some sort of campaign or recall, as every single one of those engines was going to have problems. Oil burning can absolutely be a safety issue if consumption is at a level where the engine locks up from a lack of oil.
No, Toyota is replacing the engines in 102,000 vehicles manufactured between 2022 and 2023 and it doesn't apply to the hybrids with the same engine or vehicles produced outside of that timeframe, even though there have been 2024's blowing up.
So, really no different than GM, except if you own a 2024 Tundra with an affected engine, you aren't included in the recall and don't get a 10-year 150,000 mile engine warranty extension either (like GM is giving for engines that pass the inspection).
Again, this double standard of Toyota being this bastion of nobility while GM screws people.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Yes, for certain stuff, the cab goes out, or the engine has to be dropped down. But not for such minor issue.
In the end, isn't Toyota this uber reliable, super easy thing to own? Ford is junk, remember.
I'm not sure what threshold of oil consumption would be considered a safety issue. I'd imagine it would have to be pretty excessive - otherwise there's a ton of motors out there that should be recalled.
No safety issue with the hybrids - EV takes over for sufficient time to prevent a safety issue in the event of ICE failure.
From what we know now (from official government filings no less), if you own a 2024 Tundra you do not own an affected engine. So you are completely speculating on the reason for failures occurring to the 2024+ vehicles. You also have no credible data on how many in this population are affected.
If it turns out 2024+ vehicles are affected (by Toyota's investigation) it's a safe assumption that Toyota expands the recall and the remedy will more than likely be the same - replacement engine.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Oil burning is not a safety issue. Engine seizing during operation is. That is why NHTSA was/is involved. NHTSA required Toyota to resolve the issue. Toyota did not jump to offer new engines just like that. That WAS THE ONLY possible solution. They don't have a choice. Simple rod bearing replacements would not cut.
And they still have issues, which is a design problem. Toyota is not asking questions because they cannot get awy with it. They could with junky 8 speed transmissions as their clunky operations did not disable vehicle during operations, therefore NHTSA was not involved and never made Toyota to recall 2017-2018 Highlander and Sienna AWD.
My friend visited Toyota dealership 37 times with HL. They always reflashed it and said: It is all good. He lost patience, wanted to trade in the vehicle for the 2020 HL, and the appraiser at the same dealership wrote: "Transmission issues."
They ended up with Pacifica.
A new motor definitely wasn't the only possible solution. (See GM's 6.2 solution discussed above)
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
As far as I know, and I might be wrong, the V6 TT in the Tundra is a different engine than the V8 in GM? Am I right?
So what makes you think they have 100% same issue? Different engines, different problems.
Now, that does not mean GM is doing right thing, and that GM won;t actually end up having worse problem ending up replacing engines anyway.
Remember, Sequoia has a lot of engine failures, but yet, getting new engine is not that easy bcs. hybrid powerplant.
Not to mention that 24-25 have the same rod bearing failure, and Toyota is trying to pull a fast one on that because. It is not part of the official recall.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
My point is that it's a mechanical defect (known mechanical defect) that Toyota CHOSE not to address because they could. The morally pure Toyota that advocates fantasize about would have addressed this, they didn't because that company doesn't exist, it's a fictional construct.
But the owners are still hung out to dry with the same engines, prone to the same failure, yet again underscoring that this isn't some moralistic endeavor by Toyota, driven by some social conscious, but rather one tied to the implications of an NHTSA safety recall, which ties into your argument with @edyvw.
Right, the 2024+ engines are failing for a completely different reason than the 2022/2023 engines, and to assume that they might just be affected by the same issue is obscene and borders on slanderous!
https://www.tundras.com/threads/tundra-engine-failure-analysis.161753/
The charts there, in that thread, show 7 examples of blown 2024 MY engines, which, while less than the 25 2023 MY engines, is still significant.
And there it is, like Trudeau's Crying Tour, the assurances that Toyota will always endeavor to "do the right thing©" and this would have nothing to do with it being an NHTSA mandated safety issue.
I guess we need a score card for how badly each manufacturer treats its customers. They all do it, but its how often they won't recall or do a goodwill fix, and how much it costs the customer to fix, is the real question.
In general, I get the impression that Toyota and Honda as a whole brand tend to have less major engineering and/or supplier parts quality issues, and therefore leave some customers hanging less often, but they certainly still do have some major problems and they don't always fix it free of charge!
GM/Ford/Stellantis seem to be fail more often in design and parts quality, so while something like a Jeep heater core failure at 7 years isn't super common, its still a 4 figure repair, that is much less common in the average Toyota?
It's too bad this site seems to have not been popular enough to be updated beyond 2023, but it seems to show why each brand has its reputation. https://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Honda_Accord.html
