Best ammo size for close quarter residential ?

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Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Move to a place where you don't have to be frightened by every shadow and you don't have to live in a neighborhood of tract houses.
Crime can and does happen just about everywhere. Heck, there was even crime in Mayberry. While you can lower your chances of being a victim by changing location, you cannot eliminate it. To think that location changes will solve your problem is a bit myopic if that is your suggestion. Let alone some people can financially afford a gun, but not a move.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The buckshot is very difficult for a surgeon to remove. I want to shoot the guy in the leg with one bullet that will stay in his leg. I just want to immobilize the person and not cause any fatal injuries. Can we forget about the shotgun ?
Ah, so it's a pistol you're considering. Hollow point 9mm would probably work. But if you miss, it could go through the walls and into the neighbors' house. In that case, maybe try these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug Harder to pull out of a leg I imagine, but keeps the neighbors safe.
 
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Originally Posted By: MinamiKotaro
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The buckshot is very difficult for a surgeon to remove. I want to shoot the guy in the leg with one bullet that will stay in his leg. I just want to immobilize the person and not cause any fatal injuries. Can we forget about the shotgun ?
Troll post.
This. OP constantly authors threads with twisted sideways logic to see the reactions he can get.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
You guys are mentioning rifle ammo. I was hoping there might be a hand gun ammo that won't go through a person. Would 9mm go through a person and into the next house ? How about .45 ACP ?
No, they are not mentioning rifle ammo. They are recommending shotgun ammo. A rifle would go through walls. A shotgun at close range will blow a hole through any part of a person it hits, but bird shot 6 or 7 will not go through two walls.
 
On YouTube, gunblast.com has a video on using bird shot for home defense. The jist of the thing is that bird shot probably won't kill your neighbor in the apartment next door, but it still kill in your dwelling from 20 feet out. My 88 year old dad uses a Beretta Extrema 2 shotgun for home defense because the recoil is very tolerable, it holds plenty of ammo and it cycles real fast. In his case, it's perfect: puts a lot of material out there and exact, precise aiming is not critical. He's not too interested in 'bringing 'em back alive'.
 
Originally Posted By: MuzzleFlash40
This thread is making my head hurt.
Mine as well! So we have what thus far? Let's look at it: 1.) "Shot guns are too hard to use properly". 2.) "Buckshot is very difficult for a surgeon to remove". 3.) "12ga bird shot. Or rock salt in the first one as a warning". 4.) "I just want to immobilize the person and not cause any fatal injuries. Can we forget about the shotgun"? 5.) And then there is this on the .410...... "I can fire one round that'll deliver a slug (expansion @ 0.645") to 14.5", and two .35 caliber lead balls to 24" in ballistics gel. This is what happens when someone comes on a lube forum looking for firearms advice. A bit like looking for financial investment advice on a dog grooming forum.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
This is what happens when someone comes on a lube forum looking for firearms advice. A bit like looking for financial investment advice on a dog grooming forum.
Amen brother. When the few of us try to give some sound advice on these threads we get drowned out. I know that going in but I reply anyway in hopes that it might get through, lol
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
And then there is this on the .410...... "I can fire one round that'll deliver a slug (expansion @ 0.645") to 14.5", and two .35 caliber lead balls to 24" in ballistics gel. This is what happens when someone comes on a lube forum looking for firearms advice. A bit like looking for financial investment advice on a dog grooming forum.
All I've asked, which you've been unable, or unwilling to do, is reply on the data presented. This would entail a discussion on the numbers, not opinion or diversion. (Just like anyone else, I have my opinion(s) on weapons selection. However, they serve no purpose in advancing a legitimate discussion, which is why I've solely presented data) Instead, you're merely engaging in tu quoque; this technique can work great on the talking-head news networks, but not especially well in the written format on a forum. One. more. time.
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
You're better than being just another guy blovating on firearms, right?
Considering I've used the load in both a Bond Arms Derringer, as well as a long barreled Mossberg shotgun, and found in either case the penetration was all but non existent.... Yes.
Say I have a standard, home defense shotgun (18.5" pump). From this, I can fire one round that'll deliver a slug (expansion @ 0.645") to 14.5", and two .35 caliber lead balls to 24" in ballistics gel. These will both impact at groups of 1.5" @ 15ft, and 2.25" @ 20ft. Is this considered "all but non existent" penetration under your standards?
Originally Posted By: Win
Deleted.
Read your post before the edit. I remember being shown the video of Mark Coates (South Carolina Highway Patrol) in training years ago; one 22LR, and he's DRT. Point being that any round is lethal. Relaying the story of how a round you feel to be ineffective caused merely a flesh wound isn't exactly an accurate portrayal.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Say I have a standard, home defense shotgun (18.5" pump). From this, I can fire one round that'll deliver a slug (expansion @ 0.645") to 14.5", and two .35 caliber lead balls to 24" in ballistics gel. Is this considered "all but non existent" penetration under your standards?
You ARE NOT getting, "24 inches of penetration out of a .410 in ballistic gelatin". I don't care what load, or weapon you fire it out of. You typing it does not make it fact. http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-41-the-taurus-judge-vs-the-box-o-truth/ "The buckshot only penetrated one jug and went into the second one. That is equal to about 4.5 inches of penetration into ballistic gelatin or bad guy." Shooting the same load out of an 18" barreled shotgun WILL NOT increase the penetration level 5.3 TIMES. There is your reply.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The buckshot is very difficult for a surgeon to remove. I want to shoot the guy in the leg with one bullet that will stay in his leg. I just want to immobilize the person and not cause any fatal injuries. Can we forget about the shotgun ?
Bless your tender little heart. You should just shoot the gun out of their hand. Then they will run away and turn themselves into the police they will be so scared.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
You ARE NOT getting, "24 inches of penetration out of a .410 in ballistic gelatin". I don't care what load, or weapon you fire it out of. You typing it does not make it fact. http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-41-the-taurus-judge-vs-the-box-o-truth/ "The buckshot only penetrated one jug and went into the second one. That is equal to about 4.5 inches of penetration into ballistic gelatin or bad guy." Shooting the same load out of an 18" barreled shotgun WILL NOT increase the penetration level 5.3 TIMES. There is your reply.
I'm not particularly surprised that after all the talk, your source is a WordPress blog of a guy that went into it highly biased, then subsequently used old-school, long-gun buckshot (and modified ones at that...) in a Judge in combination with a homemade water jug test rig. Here's my data, which I'll present with two important points. 1. This comes from American Rifleman. As I'm sure you know, this is the main publication/official journal of the NRA. There should be no arguments as to legitimacy, or flawed methodology. 2. Testing was conducted as such: *Single rounds were fired into bare Clear Ballistics (http://clearballistics.com/) FBI-sized synthetic gel blocks from a distance of 10 feet. *Projectile expansion was checked using Sinclair digital calipers *Weight retention was verified with a Hornady GS-1500 electronic scale
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The buckshot is very difficult for a surgeon to remove. I want to shoot the guy in the leg with one bullet that will stay in his leg. I just want to immobilize the person and not cause any fatal injuries. Can we forget about the shotgun ?
Good idea...but have you considered simply wearing cheap after shave that might turn the guy off and cause him to go next door...."I was going to rob and kill the guy until I smelled that awful Aqua Velva and then I just had to run away" [i][/i]
 
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Merk - the simple point that many have tried to make is this: If the threat is lethal, then you are allowed to respond with lethal force. That's known as proportionality. If there is no threat, then using lethal force is a crime. It's morally wrong to shoot someone if they are not a lethal threat. Your desire to shoot someone in the leg shows that you don't believe the threat to be lethal. You are intending a criminal act. Forget Danny Glover in "Lethal Weapon"...that's Hollywood and you will be excoriated by the prosecution in court if you shoot someone in the leg. You applied lethal force to a situation that wasn't lethal...and your actions proved your belief. You need to seriously re-consider your position. First, if you're worried about over-penetration, work on your marksmanship. Anything that will penetrate a human body deeply enough to cause damage will penetrate drywall and a bit of plywood sheathing on your "track" house. Best bet is good hollowpoint ammo that expands and stops in the body of the target. That, of course, requires hitting the target in the first place. Second, you really do need a course in self-defense and the law before you even consider owning a firearm for self-defense. You have to learn when you can, and when you can't, shoot.
 
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The buckshot is very difficult for a surgeon to remove. I want to shoot the guy in the leg with one bullet that will stay in his leg. I just want to immobilize the person and not cause any fatal injuries. Can we forget about the shotgun ?
Ah, so it's a pistol you're considering. Hollow point 9mm would probably work. But if you miss, it could go through the walls and into the neighbors' house. In that case, maybe try these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug Harder to pull out of a leg I imagine, but keeps the neighbors safe.
Glasers are gimmick ammo that have been shown many times over to not be effective.
 
Bird shot will not kill a person effectively. Again, the former vice president shot an octogenarian in the head with it and the guy lived. A former colleague of mine was a LEO and personally witnessed a man take both barrels of a side by side 12 ga loaded with birdshot to the the chest in a home. The man was up WALKING around. Sure his torso looked like hamburger, but he was anything but neutralized. If you do kill someone with birdshot, it will likely be because they bleed out, not because they have endured vital organ damage to shut them down. Especially if the person is on the rotund side.
 
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