Been following the 0W/20 etc. saga...

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Hi vintageant, That was a excellent UOA of what was likely a 5W-20 dino. The advantage of the high VI 0W-20 syn's like the Toyota Brand 0W-20, is the very much lighter viscosity on start-up even at room temperature; 30% lighter than a 5W-20 dino and progressively more so at lower temp's to about 50% lighter at 32F. And I haven't mentioned at all their superior sub-freezing performance. They're simply superior lubricants with numerous benefits the most important to the manufacturer being improved fuel economy but what I like most is the improved cold engine response which is noticeable.
 
Originally Posted By: vintageant
In light of the original spec, yet the newer thinking, what think ye about changing to a thinner oil?
Keep plenty of extra money in the bank for a new engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: vintageant
In light of the original spec, yet the newer thinking, what think ye about changing to a thinner oil?
Keep plenty of extra money in the bank for a new engine.
With that definitive statement, I am off the fence. Absolutely no 0W-20 for me!!!
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: vintageant
In light of the original spec, yet the newer thinking, what think ye about changing to a thinner oil?
Keep plenty of extra money in the bank for a new engine.
Is there evidence to support this statement?
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: vintageant
In light of the original spec, yet the newer thinking, what think ye about changing to a thinner oil?
Keep plenty of extra money in the bank for a new engine.
Is there evidence to support this statement?
His evidence would be ignorance most likely.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Hi vintageant, That was a excellent UOA of what was likely a 5W-20 dino. The advantage of the high VI 0W-20 syn's like the Toyota Brand 0W-20, is the very much lighter viscosity on start-up even at room temperature; 30% lighter than a 5W-20 dino and progressively more so at lower temp's to about 50% lighter at 32F. And I haven't mentioned at all their superior sub-freezing performance. They're simply superior lubricants with numerous benefits the most important to the manufacturer being improved fuel economy but what I like most is the improved cold engine response which is noticeable.
Of course, as long as the application calls for (or specs as OK) an <2.7 HTHSV (or slightly less once it shears down 'by design'). I have to agree with the 'anti-thinnies' if one is claiming it is completely fine for something which specs (and was built for) a 3.2 or above HTHSV. It is NOT a "one size fits all" with the Toy/'duh/Scoobie 0W-20s (excellent as they may be). wink
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: cchase
Is there evidence to support this statement?
Yes there is. Don't you people ever read the UOA section? These two UOA's are loaded with iron and copper wear metals: 1. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2401657&page=1 2. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2407921&page=1
Unfortunately 2 data points with no comparison to other viscosities is rather meaningless. I also think you're putting too much stock in "wear metal" readings in a single pass $20 UOA and trying to make a connection to increased wear.
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
Unfortunately 2 data points with no comparison to other viscosities is rather meaningless. I also think you're putting too much stock in "wear metal" readings in a single pass $20 UOA and trying to make a connection to increased wear.
I've seen some fantastic UOA's, but none of them have been with 20 weight oils. Some of the best UOA's I've seen have been BMW's with 40 weights.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: cchase
Unfortunately 2 data points with no comparison to other viscosities is rather meaningless. I also think you're putting too much stock in "wear metal" readings in a single pass $20 UOA and trying to make a connection to increased wear.
I've seen some fantastic UOA's, but none of them have been with 20 weight oils. Some of the best UOA's I've seen have been BMW's with 40 weights.
You must look through the UOA section with very selective goggles.
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: cchase
Unfortunately 2 data points with no comparison to other viscosities is rather meaningless. I also think you're putting too much stock in "wear metal" readings in a single pass $20 UOA and trying to make a connection to increased wear.
I've seen some fantastic UOA's, but none of them have been with 20 weight oils. Some of the best UOA's I've seen have been BMW's with 40 weights.
You must look through the UOA section with very selective goggles.
That's what I'm thinking. There was one not too long ago with MC 5w-20 in a Fusion that was stellar. Here's one: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2377244#Post2377244 other than fuel being high, hard to beat those numbers.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: cchase
Is there evidence to support this statement?
Yes there is. Don't you people ever read the UOA section? These two UOA's are loaded with iron and copper wear metals: 1. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2401657&page=1 2. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2407921&page=1
Bogus Citations. 1) Freestyle engine with problems not conclusively due to oil viscosity. You jumped on the "copper is bearing wear bandwagon" only to find there was no copper in the bearings of the engine. 2) Again, not a terrible UOA. Iron not very high and copper not from bearing because no bearings in that engine use copper. Copper likely due to sealant from recent cam change. Iron from engine still breaking in for a recent cam change.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
1) Freestyle engine with problems not conclusively due to oil viscosity. You jumped on the "copper is bearing wear bandwagon" only to find there was no copper in the bearings of the engine.
Funny enough, the copper (and iron) in the Freestyle sample was simply lab error. The revised UOA is posted later on the thread. It's fine (the oil, and the engine).
 
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