Battle of the used minivan/cargo vans

[pezzy669]

So quick back story - I am shortly (2-3 months) going to be starting my own little janitorial service that will require a dedicate vehicle with a large cargo space that can accommodate a rolling trash cart, janitorial cart, a 8-10' ladder, on occasion a commercial grade pressure washer, etc. I don't want to blow the bank on a car for the fact a new business is always risky and there is the very real possibility the business could fail.

So my budget is 10k MAX which and 100k miles which puts me in something like the below - any real experiences with the below vans would be super helpful in my decision making process. To start I am thinking it will be hitting ~25k miles per year, guessing ~80-85% highway driving based on the contracts I know I will be able to get from the start. This is one worker and one van doing 5 days per week so any expansion plans in the future would require another van - but that is further down the road.

1) Chrysler Quadruplets (Grand Caravan, Town & Country, VW Routan and RAM C/V)

I am heavily leaning towards the Chryco vans as they seem to be the best value for miles on the clock. Within my budget I can get facelifted versions (2011+) with the Pentastar that gets 17/25 MPG that all have anywhere from 85-105k miles on the clock. Doing some limited research it appears the service intervals are flexible but appears typical experience is ~10k between oil changes. I have previously been seriously burned by Chrysler and Fiat products (1999 Plymouth Neon and 2012 Fiat 500) and the Atlanta dealers service departments are the absolute worst which is my only concern. I have had plenty of Grand Caravans for rental cars for work and they are actually a really comfortable long distance cruiser and have very confident driving and handling properties so I am not worried on that end.

Any experiences with the Chrysler vans, mainly anything after the Pentastar was dropped in (2011+)?

2) 2nd generation Toyota Sienna (2004-2010)

The Siennas I have found will typically have a good 25-35k more miles on them for the same price as the Chrysler vans and will be quite a few years older but have that legendary Toyota reliability. Service intervals appear to be every 5k miles so maintenance costs will be 2x what they are on the Chryco vans. Also mileage is worse at 18/23 so fueling expenses will be higher than Chryco. I have never driven one so would definitely need to do a test drive to see if it would be something livable as my first employee will be behind the wheel for 3-4 hours per day.

3) 1st generation Ford Transit Connect

This popped up in my search results on Autotrader. Looks to be a pretty reliable workhorse but I have always thought these things were ugly as sin until the 2nd generation came out which is a huge improvement. Fuel economy vs the V6 vans is not much better on the hwy but much better in the city at 21/27 MPG - but then you are penalized with that 2.0 Focus engine trying to push that box through the air. Honestly I have not done much research on the Transit Connect as it seems such a penalty box versus the above minivans and the fuel economy improvements do not justify that penalty, sure if I had a fleet of 100 vans it would make sense but we are talking 1 van to start.

Non-contenders

Honda Odyssey - questionable reliability (VCM system and previous horrific transmission issues).

RAM Pro-Master City - nothing in my price range.

Nissan NV200 - nothing in my price range.


So just looking for some real world experiences with any of the above vans.

Thanks in advance!

 

[sloinker]

Many of the Chrysler products have a roof rack for your ladder. Stow and go gives a large flat floor without having to haul out the second row. I recommend 2013 to current 3.6L. Finding one with less than 100k with a roof rack and stow and go should be do-able. Not so much with japanese makes. I won't buy a Ford but that's just me.

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted By: sloinker
Many of the Chrysler products have a roof rack for your ladder. Stow and go gives a large flat floor without having to haul out the second row. I recommend 2013 to current 3.6L. Finding one with less than 100k with a roof rack and stow and go should be do-able. Not so much with japanese makes. I won't buy a Ford but that's just me.


Stow and go was a big factor why I am leaning towards the Chrysler vans, althought I will have a storage unit from the get go I can store seats in if need be. What is the difference of the 2013+ vs the 2011 update?

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Easy. Get the Transit Connect. Does it matter how ugly it is if you're using it for work/business purposes?

Besides, the other vans all have a transverse V6 which is impossible to work on, and the minivans versions are even worse than the cars for engine access

Even though the gas mileage may not be THAT much better on the TC, fuel is not your only expense.

 

[mrsilv04]

Chrysler/Dodge, et al:

There were issues with the early 3.6's, with left head being prone to cracking, supposedly .5% of engines. Chrysler has extended the warranty on this to 10 years/150,000 miles. Other trouble spot... for quite a few years in the minivan... is failure of the rear A/C condenser. Of course, only an issue in units with the optional rear A/C.

The leather seats aren't leather. They're some sort of imitation pleather rubbish. It's been that way for years. Cloth seats? Not a problem.

Also, IIRC the Routan does not have sto-n-go 2nd row seats. Plus, the instrument panel on the Routon was carried forward from the 2010 model year (instead of getting the newer 2011 redesign).

Other than that, they run just fine on cheap gas, cheap oil and cheap filters. Mine is fed convenience store 87 octane gas, QS High Mileage 5w-30 oil and SuperTech filters from WalMart. Gets 30+ mpg on the open road.

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Chrysler/Dodge, et al:

There were issues with the early 3.6's, with left head being prone to cracking, supposedly .5% of engines. Chrysler has extended the warranty on this to 10 years/150,000 miles. Other trouble spot... for quite a few years in the minivan... is failure of the rear A/C condenser. Of course, only an issue in units with the optional rear A/C.

The leather seats aren't leather. They're some sort of imitation pleather rubbish. It's been that way for years. Cloth seats? Not a problem.

Also, IIRC the Routan does not have sto-n-go 2nd row seats. Plus, the instrument panel on the Routon was carried forward from the 2010 model year (instead of getting the newer 2011 redesign).

Other than that, they run just fine on cheap gas, cheap oil and cheap filters. Mine is fed convenience store 87 octane gas, QS High Mileage 5w-30 oil and SuperTech filters from WalMart. Gets 30+ mpg on the open road.


Thanks much for the input - if you don't mind me asking how many miles do you have on your Chrysler van? While FCA and previously DaimlerChrysler, Chrysler, etc. did not have the best reputation but it seems the minivans transcended all the other junk they were pumping out, I know my mom's 1996 Grand Voyager had 180k on the clock and ran just fine when they traded it in for a 2006 Grand Caravan.

Pleather I am ok with as it will be a work van and based on my past pleather experiences (2006 Jetta and the Mercedes in my signature) it is much more durable than real leather.

The Routan's seem to have worse resale value versus the Chrysler vans despite being the same exact thing, they are 10-15% cheaper. I would be completely cool with having to lug out the 2nd row seats and tossing them in storage to save $1-1.5k.

 

[maxdustington]

My boss has a Transit Connect and it is small. We are electricians and he has a ladder rack and ladders but it is small. If the trash cart is what I think it is, you will almost fill the cargo area with a janitorial cart and a trash cart.

You can get by with the size and I would trust it mechanically over a minivan. Lower operating costs but less versatility due to small size, but you gain that versatility back with better city mpg. They are slow but the interior is pretty comfortable, but it is a commercial interior. Janitors don't really have any tools or carry anything heavy, so it would work better for you than it does for us. My boss has a cargo partition in his, and he can fit a 6ft ladder along the driver's side with the rear door panel removed.

It's actually pretty handy to have dual sliding doors on such a short van. It feels like you can reach the entire cargo area from any of the doors.

I'm thinking of starting a construction business soon, and I would consider getting one just for the bare minimum sized work van. They seem to be pretty tough and that is #1 in a commercial vehicle for me. Their disc detainer locks are susceptible to being picked, apparently this is a big issue in Europe.

 

[dogememe]

I have heard that the first gen Transit Connects have transmission problems. The newer ones, however, seem to be fantastic. A friend owned one for quite some time and he really liked it. I drove it and it had a lot of power for being a small engine in a cargo van.

 

[Rolla07]

I think if it were me, id decide between the caravan and the sienna. You would need to run the numbers though. I think gas mileage would pretty much run even despite the claims.

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted By: maxdustington
My boss has a Transit Connect and it is small. We are electricians and he has a ladder rack and ladders but it is small. If the trash cart is what I think it is, you will almost fill the cargo area with a janitorial cart and a trash cart.

You can get by with the size and I would trust it mechanically over a minivan. Lower operating costs but less versatility due to small size, but you gain that versatility back with better city mpg. They are slow but the interior is pretty comfortable, but it is a commercial interior. Janitors don't really have any tools or carry anything heavy, so it would work better for you than it does for us. My boss has a cargo partition in his, and he can fit a 6ft ladder along the driver's side with the rear door panel removed.

It's actually pretty handy to have dual sliding doors on such a short van. It feels like you can reach the entire cargo area from any of the doors.

I'm thinking of starting a construction business soon, and I would consider getting one just for the bare minimum sized work van. They seem to be pretty tough and that is #1 in a commercial vehicle for me. Their disc detainer locks are susceptible to being picked, apparently this is a big issue in Europe.


Thank you so much for some real world experience on the Transit Connect - this is incredibly helpful!

The space was one of my main concerns with the Transit - I think it gives up a good 30-40 cubic ft to the vans. Yes the trash cart you are picturing is the one, the 2 wheeled version with the sloped front. At the end of the day it will have anywhere from 8-10 36 gallon trash bags of varying fill levels to drop off at the dump so it will be maxed out by the end of the day if not overflowing with trash bags in the cargo area.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: dogememe
I have heard that the first gen Transit Connects have transmission problems. The newer ones, however, seem to be fantastic. A friend owned one for quite some time and he really liked it. I drove it and it had a lot of power for being a small engine in a cargo van.

I was also going to mention the possible transmission problems.

If its a business (LLC) maybe get a gas credit card and track all your miles and fuel.

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: dogememe
I have heard that the first gen Transit Connects have transmission problems. The newer ones, however, seem to be fantastic. A friend owned one for quite some time and he really liked it. I drove it and it had a lot of power for being a small engine in a cargo van.

I was also going to mention the possible transmission problems.

If its a business (LLC) maybe get a gas credit card and track all your miles and fuel.


Great info from you and dogememe - my limited research showed the 1st gen TC did not use the problematic dual clutch, did no know that the regular 6 speed had issues.

Despite being a 1 van operation was already looking into a fleet card - if anyone has any recommendations of fleet fuel and service cards that would be way beyond what I was looking for and highly appreciated.

 

[oilstudent24]

I'm not sure that the TC/Dodge vans(11+) are seeing that real world gas mileage. I have the next model sienna 11+ with a 6 speed and see pretty good numbers. You might use Consumer Reports/ Car and Driver/ Motor Trend for real world MPG as I think they may do long HWY trips to simulate how consumers normally use their vans. Insurance was a bit cheaper on the Toyota as well. Just 2 cents.

 

[paulri]

FWIW, my Sienna has a stow and go setup for the back row of seats (and the 2nd row is removable). The 5K is conventional only--Toyota has allowed for 10K on synthetic, so you could use that if you wanted--at least as far back as my 05 (I don't know about the 04 or earlier models).

 

[Andrew1972]

I would spend as little as possible which points to Chrysler. An emerging business keep costs to bare minimum and let your company grow. All my friends pulling $200k-$500k/year did not spend much on their business to allow growth. One of them uses a 2000 Lexus LS as company car for client pickups etc.

 

[WobblyElvis]

This may or may not be important to you.

Not all mini vans will take a 4X8 sheet of material. If you are putting anything tall inside make sure if will fit through the rear opening.

 

[sloinker]

Chrysler and Dodge easily accommodate a full size sheet of plywood/drywall. Many sheets, keep your eye on the weight of the load on what is a fairly light chassis and passenger car tires. I just hauled home some 12' linoleum and wood trim with the tailgate closed and the material angled between the seats.

This is probably a decent deal if you want AWD
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/220797195390171

You won't find much for 10K in a Sienna that doesn't have mucho miles on it. I listed the only one I saw.
You have to move to the SXT trim in the Dodge to get a roof rack I believe.

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted By: oilstudent24
I'm not sure that the TC/Dodge vans(11+) are seeing that real world gas mileage. I have the next model sienna 11+ with a 6 speed and see pretty good numbers. You might use Consumer Reports/ Car and Driver/ Motor Trend for real world MPG as I think they may do long HWY trips to simulate how consumers normally use their vans. Insurance was a bit cheaper on the Toyota as well. Just 2 cents.


I have had a number of Grand Caravans as rentals in Florida - flying into Orlando you will be lucky to get anything other than a Grand Caravan or Pacifica. All my rental Grand Caravans easily surpassed the 25 MPG highway number and the Pentastar is an absolute hoot to drive, it was not hard to light up the front tires from a standstill.

Originally Posted By: madRiver
I would spend as little as possible which points to Chrysler. An emerging business keep costs to bare minimum and let your company grow. All my friends pulling $200k-$500k/year did not spend much on their business to allow growth. One of them uses a 2000 Lexus LS as company car for client pickups etc.


Amen! That is why I am looking at 10k and under, I don't want a jalopy for $5k that has 200k miles on it as breakdowns could possibly break the whole operation as it is reliant on one vehicle from the start.

Originally Posted By: paulri
FWIW, my Sienna has a stow and go setup for the back row of seats (and the 2nd row is removable). The 5K is conventional only--Toyota has allowed for 10K on synthetic, so you could use that if you wanted--at least as far back as my 05 (I don't know about the 04 or earlier models).
Originally Posted By: sloinker
Chrysler and Dodge easily accommodate a full size sheet of plywood/drywall. Many sheets, keep your eye on the weight of the load on what is a fairly light chassis and passenger car tires. I just hauled home some 12' linoleum and wood trim with the tailgate closed and the material angled between the seats.

This is probably a decent deal if you want AWD
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/220797195390171

You won't find much for 10K in a Sienna that doesn't have mucho miles on it. I listed the only one I saw.
You have to move to the SXT trim in the Dodge to get a roof rack I believe.


AWD is not important as we may get 1-2 days of snow here in Atlanta each winter and those days my company would just not operate like everyone else around here. I really like the Sienna and the fact it will probably go 250k miles before any major issues pop up, but they are 3-4 years older and have 25-50k miles more than the Chrysler vans of similar pricing......well except the one you linked which is a diamond in the rough.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: dogememe
I have heard that the first gen Transit Connects have transmission problems.


Those are on CL here for under $1000 with blown trannys and 200k. 2011s even.

I would find a conversion van and rip all the seats and shag carpets out. If you're lucky you'll get a tall fiberglass roof too. These things depreciate like crazy.

 

[dbias]

I have a 2012 transit connect and love it. It has the tall roof compared to the newer versions, I'm 6 foot 3 and can't touch the roof sitting in the drivers seat. They have the payload capacity of a half ton pickup truck and I've had mine loaded to the hilt over 60 percent of the time with DirecTV equipment for a dozen of my techs. The transmission was redone, proactively, by my friend at the Ford dealer under warranty ar 40k and it now has over 130k with no problem.
I've done 10k oci with mobile 1 or Castrol edge 5w-20 from day one and it's never needed a drop of oil btwn oci. I'm getting a little oil in #4 spark plug hole so I'm getting ready to change the valve cover gasket here soon and will post pics here soon. Looking down the oil fill hole with a flashlight its looks like day 1. It is in no way fast but has been reliable.