battery life? and new brand batteries at advance auto..

[researcher]

okay there are two questions that I have.

First, I had a group 24 battery gold 700 CCA from Advance Auto it's a Johnson's control battery. for the past two to three years I've had this battery on a battery tender always keeping it charged.

Before putting it in the car I had it load tested and it failed. the test showed 507 CCA out of 700. the battery was fully charged. so my question is how does a battery go bad just being on a trickle charger? this battery tender that I have has charged all the other batteries perfectly and there's nothing wrong with them. this battery that I'm talking about was manufactured 11/14.

Now I know that I've always replace batteries around four years old here in Michigan. but here's a battery that wasn't even used and it still went bad in four years so am I losing my mind here thinking they're designed to fail no matter what in 4 years?

I got a new battery from Advance Auto it's a Johnson's control with the 45 degree angles on the vent caps and tested out great 746cca outof700cca rated. but what was odd they had batteries that had two handles that folded down and no vent caps on top does anybody know who makes those? I've never seen them before. These are are group 24..

 

[eljefino]

What was your load tester?

I think you have a little too much faith in technology, taking one reading literally then throwing the battery away. FWIW, Midtronics says under 50% of CCA is a fail, and 50-60% is marginal. You were at 72%. Midtronics uses the internal impedance of a battery to infer its CCA... good, but not foolproof. They also say testing brand new virgin batteries with their tester will give a false high reading.

I'd have run that old battery, to at least see how well it worked in day-to-day use.

I'd also not have had it on a trickle charger for 2 continuous years. Maybe hit it for 24 hours once a month.

Was that battery ever in service, or was it brand new never touched?

 

[pcoxe]

All batteries decay over time. Batteries with longer warranties have more initial CCA so that they will still have enough CCA after several years of decay to make it through the warranty period.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted by researcher
. but what was odd they had batteries that had two handles that folded down and no vent caps on top does anybody know who makes those? I've never seen them before. These are are group 24..


Sounds like East Penn. Usually on top of the battery the long model number will start with the letters "EP'. Noticed the same thing at Walmart, JCI batteries next to ones made by EP.

 

[DzoG20]

I have the same AAP 24 gold battery with date 10/13 on it. Tested it a AAP with full procedure (taking out surface charge,etc) - came out 367 out of 700 as the CCA are concerned, but the guy say it is good... I did not have starting problems with it - didn't tried temps below 5-10F yet.

I used to keep batteries until they drop to ~400 CCA, but before I get the chance to replace this one my IACV went bad - car stalls if I let off the gas pedal. I was only ~2mi away from home. I had to crank-up 8-10 times. The battery did not give up - car started every time.

This made me curious - instead of trowing it away I'm thinking to experiment a bit with it and go into the gray area of battery desulfation

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by DzoG20


This made me curious - instead of trowing it away I'm thinking to experiment a bit with it and go into the gray area of battery desulfation


I wish more people knew about these. I have gotten a LOT of extra life out of a battery after "zapping" it

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted by pcoxe
All batteries decay over time. Batteries with longer warranties have more initial CCA so that they will still have enough CCA after several years of decay to make it through the warranty period.


Better lead, better structure to prevent sulfation, but not necessarily more CCA.

 

[doitmyself]

Maybe an expert will chime in. Would a battery sitting for years on just a maintenance charger tend to get acid stratification that results in sulphation? Maybe occasional equalization charging would help??

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/equalizing_charge

"An equalizing charge is nothing more than a deliberate overcharge to remove sulfate crystals that build up on the plates over time. Left unchecked, sulfation can reduce the overall capacity of the battery and render the battery unserviceable in extreme cases. An equalizing charge also reverses acid stratification, a condition where acid concentration is greater at the bottom of the battery than at the top."

 

[pm88]

I had AAP Gold group 65 and group 90 batteries (purchased 12/12) each connected almost continuously to a couple of Noco G3500 chargers for cars I seldom used. The group 65 died Dec ‘18 but I hadn't caught that the water level dropped too low. The group 90 currently shows as bad with a 100% charge but only 318 CCAs out of the listed 650 CCAs. BA9 tester shows 10.08 mOhms internal resistance. It is sealed so I can't check the water level.

I bought a Pepboys 12 month ValueGrade group 90 battery for only $37 this month which has the exact same specs as the now $159 AAP 3 year so we'll see how it holds up. It currently shows 722 CCAs with 4.42 mOhms internal resistance.

 

[bullwinkle]

I'm a fan of the "pulse" charging put out by a Battery Minder or Battery Minder Jr. after full charge voltage is achieved-helps knock sulfation off the plates. Doesn't help with Johnson Controls battery acid leakage issues nor with disintegration of weak/thin battery plates, though. Why did you buy a battery and not use it?

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted by bullwinkle
I'm a fan of the "pulse" charging put out by a Battery Minder or Battery Minder Jr. after full charge voltage is achieved-helps knock sulfation off the plates. Doesn't help with Johnson Controls battery acid leakage issues nor with disintegration of weak/thin battery plates, though. Why did you buy a battery and not use it?


I know the JCI batteries have been getting a bad name lately... but I have never had an exide that didnt leak at the terminals making tons of the fuzzy stuff.

Penn/Deka is the future for me I guess.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted by DzoG20
I have the same AAP 24 gold battery with date 10/13 on it. Tested it a AAP with full procedure (taking out surface charge,etc) - came out 367 out of 700 as the CCA are concerned, but the guy say it is good... I did not have starting problems with it - didn't tried temps below 5-10F yet.

I used to keep batteries until they drop to ~400 CCA, but before I get the chance to replace this one my IACV went bad - car stalls if I let off the gas pedal. I was only ~2mi away from home. I had to crank-up 8-10 times. The battery did not give up - car started every time.

This made me curious - instead of trowing it away I'm thinking to experiment a bit with it and go into the gray area of battery desulfation


BatteryMinder probably has the best desulfation circuitry. But even then it's more theory than actual. They say it could take a month to bring back a heavly sulfated battery. Some batteries may be better candidates than others for desulfation.

If you are going to keep a battery long term on a battery maintainer it should have high and low temp compensation.

 

[bubbatime]

Don't leave batteries on a tender, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. I ruins batteries.

Plug the tender in once a month for 24 hours and then unplug it until next month.

Use the battery as a power supply, for power outages. A couple 12V LED bulbs will give you light for a long time. Also, you can use an inverter and keep your cell phones and other stuff charged.

 

[bbhero]

^^^^^^^^^^^

Makes sense to me.

 

[Donald]

I think you can leave a battery long term on a high-quality battery maintainer as long as it has temp compensation and is in a place that does not get too hot or too cold (basement).

 

[researcher]

Originally Posted by eljefino
What was your load tester?

I think you have a little too much faith in technology, taking one reading literally then throwing the battery away. FWIW, Midtronics says under 50% of CCA is a fail, and 50-60% is marginal. You were at 72%. Midtronics uses the internal impedance of a battery to infer its CCA... good, but not foolproof. They also say testing brand new virgin batteries with their tester will give a false high reading.

I'd have run that old battery, to at least see how well it worked in day-to-day use.

I'd also not have had it on a trickle charger for 2 continuous years. Maybe hit it for 24 hours once a month.

Was that battery ever in service, or was it brand new never touched?


Don't know the model of the load tester, but I know it was a midtronics at a shop. The machine also went to fast charge the battery as it was not up to voltage to be tested, even though it was fully charged before the test! I had it tested twice. Once at the shop and once at AAP. Midtronics may not be perfect, but when a battery needed to be charged up before testing, yeah I'd say something wasn't right. I've never had a battery that was good, require that. A carbon pile load tester is probably better, but the tools that are out there, I do the best I can with tech that is available.

The battery was in service, for about a year or so before the car went into storage and this battery went on the Battery Tender for about 2 years. Guess according to you Deltran (company who makes the Battery Tender) is lying about being able to keep it connected to their product for long periods of time..

Originally Posted by pcoxe
All batteries decay over time. Batteries with longer warranties have more initial CCA so that they will still have enough CCA after several years of decay to make it through the warranty period.


thanks pcoxe! That's what my original question was about, if a battery even though it's being charged would deteriorate over time. Looks like the answer is yes! And that's exactly what this battery did, lasted 4 years, 1 year beyond the warranty! It is a lesson I learned, here thinking that I could get a battery to last a long time and yet it's the same time frame!


Originally Posted by SatinSilver
Originally Posted by researcher
. but what was odd they had batteries that had two handles that folded down and no vent caps on top does anybody know who makes those? I've never seen them before. These are are group 24..


Sounds like East Penn. Usually on top of the battery the long model number will start with the letters "EP'. Noticed the same thing at Walmart, JCI batteries next to ones made by EP.


Thanks SatinSilver.. so that's what it is, an east penn battery.. Looks like AAP is now selling both JCI and EP! I went with the JCI since the others were much older, just me I want the freshest I can get.

Originally Posted by DzoG20
I have the same AAP 24 gold battery with date 10/13 on it. Tested it a AAP with full procedure (taking out surface charge,etc) - came out 367 out of 700 as the CCA are concerned, but the guy say it is good... I did not have starting problems with it - didn't tried temps below 5-10F yet.

I used to keep batteries until they drop to ~400 CCA, but before I get the chance to replace this one my IACV went bad - car stalls if I let off the gas pedal. I was only ~2mi away from home. I had to crank-up 8-10 times. The battery did not give up - car started every time.

This made me curious - instead of trowing it away I'm thinking to experiment a bit with it and go into the gray area of battery desulfation


Interesting that here you had a battery of the same vintage (close) and it's dropping CCA's as well.. I would really like to know if you do experiment with it, and desulfation! Would be a great thing to learn that it DOES work!
Originally Posted by Donald
I think you can leave a battery long term on a high-quality battery maintainer as long as it has temp compensation and is in a place that does not get too hot or too cold (basement).


Yeah I agree that it should be able to be left on a Battery Tender (by Deltran) that was the whole point of the charger in the first place! And the battery was indoors the whole time! Actually was sitting by the kitchen landing. I know I should've had it in a garage but I don't have one, so it was inside with me.

What this all shows me is no matter if the battery is charged up on a tender, or if it's used, they only last about 4 years! Seems like they're designed to die so that you have to buy a new one on a regular interval!

And with the cold snap we just got here in michigan, I'm glad to have a new battery! To me it's not a waste of money, it's not having to worry is what I was buying. I've never had a battery last more than 4.5 years here in michigan..