bad turbo pics

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My turbo on my 1994 Volvo 940 started smoking.. The turbo was aftermarket & only about three years old. I used rotella t6 almost exclusively with the exception of a couple oil changes of PU 5w40.I changed the oil every 4000miles.The compressor side thrust washer and bearing/bushing look excellent! But the exhaust bearing and seal are destroyed.. I thought I was cooling the turbo properly after a high temp run.. maybe I should rethink that? Or should I rethink my oil? http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/bourqu...?sort=3&o=1
 
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pbm

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Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I think you may need to rethink your turbo manufacturer.
Exactly my thought....
 
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There is quite a lot of heat making its way down the shaft. I'm not sure there is sufficient oil flow through the CHRA. I would check oil flow, and consider a water cooled CHRA for this application. What are your EGTs during a run?
 

Astro14

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That vintage Volvo, which is what, a B21FT, or a B23FT Red Block engine, could have come with an oil cooled or a water cooled bearing housing. If you've fried it, be certain that the replacement turbo has a water cooled bearing housing. From the pics, it looks like yours was just oil cooled...there's a reason that Volvo upgraded the turbo to water cooling. The turbo on my B21FT in my 1985 240 suffered a similar fate. After the upgraded housing, it was rock solid for over 100K miles, until a tree fell on the car and I sold it...I saw it again years later...still running. IPD ( www.ipdusa.com ) can help you out with retrofitting the turbo cooling loop using OE plumbing.
 
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vorteXtreme759

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Originally Posted By: Jim_Truett
There is quite a lot of heat making its way down the shaft. I'm not sure there is sufficient oil flow through the CHRA. I would check oil flow, and consider a water cooled CHRA for this application. What are your EGTs during a run?
The egt's are unknown. But my a/f ratio reads between 11.5 and 12. @15 psi boost. I will be installing egt gauge very soon in addition to a turbo. And a water cooled housing should probably be considered necessary in a street application.
 
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Who made the aftermarket turbo? On some of the Mitsubishi Ralliart and Evo pages I subscribe to, some people buy the cheapest turbo on eBay. Nothing good ever happens. Who made your aftermarket turbo?
 
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I forgot to mention something. Is your exhaust system in good shape? If a cat clogs, it quickly destroys the turbocharger. For all I know, it killed your first turbo, then killed the second one.
 
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Truett
There is quite a lot of heat making its way down the shaft. I'm not sure there is sufficient oil flow through the CHRA. I would check oil flow, and consider a water cooled CHRA for this application. What are your EGTs during a run?
I too was wondering if this was an oil flow (or lack of) problem. The mention of exhaust blockage is also a valid consideration/possibility.
 

vorteXtreme759

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Originally Posted By: artificialist
Who made the aftermarket turbo? On some of the Mitsubishi Ralliart and Evo pages I subscribe to, some people buy the cheapest turbo on eBay. Nothing good ever happens. Who made your aftermarket turbo?
it's a china ebay turbo. But my brother also has a volvo with the 2.3 redblock and he only buys Garrett turbos and he has a problem with the hot side bearing aswell he is on his third Garrett turbo In 2 years! When he breaksdown his turbos they look similar. I think he reported 2000~2300egt full throttle @ 20psi boost and neither of us have any possibility of exhaust restriction. he also has water meth injection And a turbo timer. As for oil flow we both get oil from the factory location but with a stainless braided hose.
 

vorteXtreme759

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Is it possible that the turbo hotside bearing is just so hot that the oil is running away or sizzling off!! Lol jk ..not really?
 
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Couple of questions to start: Are you monitoring oil pressure and temps? Now working on his 3rd Garrett, what oil has your brother been running?
 
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Are you certain the braided SS oil line inside diameter is at least as large and free flowing as the factory one? Could it be kinked, inside hose swollen, or have fittings that are restricting oil flow? Is the oil drain from the turbo free flowing?
 
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Originally Posted By: another Todd
Are you certain the braided SS oil line inside diameter is at least as large and free flowing as the factory one? Could it be kinked, inside hose swollen, or have fittings that are restricting oil flow? Is the oil drain from the turbo free flowing?
Good point. Journal bearing turbos require more oil than ball bearing turbos. If he got some generic supply hose, how would he know he had the right one? Combine that with the generic turbo he got from eBay, and it would be easy to get some kind of mismatch.
 
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That's typical performance for oil cooled T3 turbo, of any sort. Aftermarket or OEM Garrett. The hot side cokes up and the result is seen above. The only real "solution" with such turbo's is an oil that is primarily Group IV PAO synthetic oil. Today's group III synthetics, such as T6, just can't do the job with that level of heat. I'm just guessing, but it's possible the Mobil 1, 0W-40 is largely a Group IV oil, based on previously published specs. This is something I need to look into also. As my current car, a Honda S2000 w/t3-t4 turbo, could benefit from Group IV oil. I'm currently using M1, 5W-40 TDT, which gives me better results in my various toys than Rotella T6 For example: http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products-categ.php?id_categ=1&id_base_oil=1 In years past, my turbo "go-to" oil was always M1, 15W-50, mostly because it never left any deposits on the turbo shaft and underside of the pistons. Today, the formulation "may" be different and I'm not confident the oil will be as deposit free as in the past. Quite simply, I just don't know.
 
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This isn't an oil issue, it's just quality control and design. Those sized turbos being pushed even a little higher than stock just dont seem to hold up for as long not to mention the ebay copies not being balanced for [censored] even new.. I switched to a Holset on my old Volvo and never looked back. (Had to get an oil restrictor for it but no big deal) The point is the smaller framed turbos pushed hard don't last as long as a big turbo that doesnt have to breath as much. A 16g/18g mitsu will last a long time on a mitsu with oil/water cooling and good manufacturing. Look at some compressor maps and pick a big cfm turbo, I'd say in the t3/t4 range.
 

Astro14

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Quit looking at oil as a way to mitigate the problem. Water cool the bearing housing and fix the temperature extremes in this application. That's what Volvo did.
 
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Quit looking at oil as a way to mitigate the problem. Water cool the bearing housing and fix the temperature extremes in this application. That's what Volvo did.
Agreed....but why not get the most protection possible out of the oil also? I would use Redline in an application like this.
 
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