Back w another question...motors

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southernjeeper

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The 2170 or 961 is a great all welded hull War Eagle boat that is built in Monticello, Arkansas. It has a wings transom so they do corner great. The backwater of the rivers is what I'm shooting for now and the bay will just be a later purchase. More than likely the 22' bluewave with the max hp. The 2170 is rated for a 150hp but I am thinking a 115 will be good enough. That is only if the 150hp is out of reach. I don't believe it would be, because it would not be the 225hp or 250hp for the 22' bluewave purebay. Later. I'll let it be known when that will happen.
 

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Definitely buying one day in my lifetime, the 2400 pure bay. I know the 300hp is the better choice. It's just an expensive motor. That's a goal to set. I had the chance to ride in one the other day all because I knew a good bit about the boat. When I asked about whether or not to get the 2200 or the 2400. He immediately said the 2400. After that ride along, I made my mind up really fast. That was a fun time on the water. I was even offered to have the chance to drive. I passed on that since it's an expensive rig. It zooms across the water. I will probably not bother with the t-top because casting would be limited. And that I read a few weeks ago if not a few months ago that fish can see it. Bridges on the water and towing it is a problem, too. They are up to 4 grand as well to have that luxury of shade, but it is shade and a place to mount speakers and rocket launches. That will be decided when I figure out I need that shade more or if I care to have it soon after I purchase the boat. Why most of you think I need to figure out what I am fishing for. I am fishing both and by then when I can afford a boat like this I'll have all the chances to go pretty much in deeper water or shallows for reds and specks. I do however love catching largemouth bass, bluegill and catfish. There is plenty of room not to be over crowded in a limit on the boat one bit. Fines in the fishing world are steep. That's from reading about them online.
 
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For your intended uses I don't see the T-Top either. A large Bimini top made of Sunbrella that folds out of the way? Definitely! Sometimes you just gotta have some shade.
 

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Only problem I see with a Bimini top is that I was told and it made me realize that a $60,000 rig should not have but a T-top. The sunbrella might work instead of the Bimini. On the impressive ride along the man said he had the t top added pretty much a month or so after wanting the shade. I would probably do the same. Less upfront cost and can get a custom one if needed added at the later date. He did say it took off a few miles per hour, but shade is a valuable asset to have when nowadays skin cancer is pretty common. A Mrs would decide, too. I would have to please her wishes. Clearance issues while trailering may just be the biggest factor on no top. I don't think low limbs and what not would be good to damage it. I would be like all other boaters and just pick the right route to the water and ramps. Typically how much does a good to great t top weigh?
 

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I may have been convinced that the new Yamaha Sho motor is what customers are wanting. Price is pretty much the same with the bigger 4.3 and 3.3 yamis. Like I have said I will see when I make the down payment. The Sho motor is just rated to 250 hp. The 24.5' of the pure bay and less passengers and not a full tank of fuel the 250 Sho will be more ideal. Low torque and midrange. Top WOT will just guzzle gas. If I get the 2170 wareagle blackhawk boat by end of summer I'll get either the 150 merc or a 115hp Yamaha. Since they have a 4cylinder Sho motor I might put one of that boat just to show up other boaters that only wish they had a bad a motor. The 150sho or 115sho for it. Nothing less for that 21footer. May be overkill for some people to pay for a welded fishing/hunting boat but atleast I will be able to scoot across the rivers and big water if I wanted to. Thank Tuffy for all the feedback.
 
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I have ridden in a bunch of SHO's the last few years, not worth the hype... a lot of power heads getting rebuilt quietly with nobody talking about it... I would only buy a 4 stroke if its the only option... dealer will push SHO to get you to spend more... I just seen a 300 optimax pro xs new for 16.1k... that is the mother of all outboards...
 

southernjeeper

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nice to know. But since the Shos are having the hush hush work on them. I would not go that route even tho a parts man at a dealer said the Sho engines and 4.3 regular yammys are about the same price. Newer ain't always better. Plus I have read a few places where people have said that the Yamaha sho motors have been having problems after a few 100 hrs on them. I guess I need to stay away from expensive boat mechanic hourly wages for that reason. When I do get the 24 more or less I'll get either a great deal on a 300hp. If not I'll have to just go with the 250hp. Optimax pro xs are more for bass boats? Not bay boats and mid size center consoles. Right?
 
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Wow... you need to get around fishing boats more... ProXS is available in many shaft lengths... sport master will get you there anytime and on any boat... 250 proXS engine of choice for all the big tuffys... you goto a redfish tourney and you'll see a whole bunch of PXS... Just ordered my pro XS powered boat last night... check in the mail...
 

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Just getting back to where I would fish in saltwater and brackish rivers. I did see at a river tourney that there were a lot if the pro XS's but i will probably never want to compete, nor needing that get up a go like a bass boat. I'm for fishing to eat and recreation like the majority of fisherman that aren't hardcore. Midrange and fuel efficiency first. Hole shot and reasonably priced motor to get the job done, but not too high out of price range is my dilemma. I'm also a young buck, but not too young to realize that it takes a lot of patience when wants are wants and need for now are needs. So does the every man wishes he could afford and be set for more than several years for a favorite pass time. I have made up my mind pretty much that I will more than likely get the aluminum boat War Eagle brand boat that is made in Arkansas sooner than the Blue Wave anyhow. I have been using our little 14' with the 15hp evinrude for 20years. But I want it's big brother the 21 or 19 footer Blackhawk boats that they now offer. Easily just in the 31k ballpark in price. My only upgrade structurally would be a tandem galvanized trailer from either Karavan or magic tilt. Just for peace of mind towing longer distances without any major concerns if on one side a tire should fail for any reason and I could limp to a safe place to change or fix.
 
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Originally Posted By: ironman_gq
With boats I've always thought that buying as much horsepower as you can is the way to go. Aside from the motor, getting the right prop on it for what your using the boat for is extremely important. Too many people buy a boat with a big motor and hate it because they have the wrong prop. The right prop on a bigger motor will have more power and be more efficient than a smaller motor with the wrong prop.
Absolutely on the last point; not really on the first, it's more about buying cubic inches that HP. Torque comes from engine displacement (and supercharging). HP comes from RPM's X Tq... I'll take a 300 cu in engine rated at 250 any day of the week vs a 250 cu in motor rated at 300 ... Especially if going off-shore. And you do not need the extra stresses and complexity of a blower on an off-shore boat... Look at the lower unit gear reduction. For boats in the weight classes you are talking about you want the lowest gears you can get to swing the biggest prop that will match the planing characteristics of the hull. The motor must reach optimum RPM with nominal load to be efficient. But getting up on plane will be about gears and blade area ... Look at the charging system on the engine too. You want as many amps off that alternator as you can buy. You will have plenty to use the juice on laugh Make absolutely darned sure that you get a fuel/water separator between your tanks and that engine. More EFI systems have been killed by wet fuel than any other single issue ...
 

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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Originally Posted By: ironman_gq
With boats I've always thought that buying as much horsepower as you can is the way to go. Aside from the motor, getting the right prop on it for what your using the boat for is extremely important. Too many people buy a boat with a big motor and hate it because they have the wrong prop. The right prop on a bigger motor will have more power and be more efficient than a smaller motor with the wrong prop.
Absolutely on the last point; not really on the first, it's more about buying cubic inches that HP. Torque comes from engine displacement (and supercharging). HP comes from RPM's X Tq... I'll take a 300 cu in engine rated at 250 any day of the week vs a 250 cu in motor rated at 300 ... Especially if going off-shore. And you do not need the extra stresses and complexity of a blower on an off-shore boat... Look at the lower unit gear reduction. For boats in the weight classes you are talking about you want the lowest gears you can get to swing the biggest prop that will match the planing characteristics of the hull. The motor must reach optimum RPM with nominal load to be efficient. But getting up on plane will be about gears and blade area ... Look at the charging system on the engine too. You want as many amps off that alternator as you can buy. You will have plenty to use the juice on laugh Make absolutely darned sure that you get a fuel/water separator between your tanks and that engine. More EFI systems have been killed by wet fuel than any other single issue ...
Excellent advice. I figured out that a few weeks ago that the liter of a motor is far more important than just hp. The gearing I kinda knew something was very important but you made me understand that better. My truck has 4.11 gearing so with outboards for better hole shot and torque the 2.38 gearing is definitely better than the ones that are 1.88 or less? And lastly for the charging that's a no brainer. And thanks for mentioning that as well. Thanks BrocLuno
 
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And just to fill in the blanks... I'm in the process of re-powering my project boat. A 1962 Glasspar Citation (17') that is a resto-mod fun boat. It has a 4-stroke Honda on it now, and that will be replaced by a 2-stroke Tohatsu. Going from wimpy 50 HP 4-stroke with mediocre TQ down low to likely 90 HP 2-stroke with a real hole shot and mid-range power. the Tohatsu is 90 cu in too, so the motor is not under a lot of stress. Things I found about 4-stroke, is that they growl instead of whine. They are no less noisy at speed than a good old 2-stroke. They have a LOT more moving parts. Modern fuel injected 2-strokes are fairly fuel efficient when throttled back. I started life working in the boat yards and I'm well into my 60's now. Been doing boat stuff all my life up to marine engineering. I fell for the 4-stroke hype and went Honda as they have a sterling reputation. Will never do that again. Motor is OK, well built and all, but 4-strokes do not make the same kind of power and I don't like listening to them. I want 25 kts over the bottom for long runs like Lake Chelan, Lake Powell, etc. I could do it with the Honda, but I'd be over 4,000 the whole way. That's a tiring sound to listen to for hours on end. With the 90, it'll be throttled back to 3,000 for the same speed so will sound much more relaxed and the fuel hit will be like 6% more - big deal ... Meanwhile I have a much more aggressive leave, way more top end if I want it, and more amps out of the alternator the whole way smile In your motor size, 2-stroke may be iffy... But in any case I'd look at Tohatsu. They started life as commercial motors for Asian fishermen and watermen. They built a stellar reputation world wide. They have zinc plated internal cooling system passageways and stuff others just do not. I went looking on the 'Net for negative comments about each of the brands as I went down the list. Merc is having a lot of negative issues with powerhead replacements. So that pushed me on to Evinrude... Many "not covered under warranty" for fuel injectors for not winterizing correctly and "bad gas" stuff, etc. Also some are loosing the water cooled engine management units and they are really pricey... E-Tec injectors are $500 a pop and they usually want to change them all out - ouch. In most cases I think it's the Fuel Feed Pump (FFP) that is going bad and not feeding the injectors enough pressure or even flow... FFP's are cheap by comparison, so I'd always change that first. And I think that some non-ethanol gas with a shot of TCW-3 is what I'd run through the fuel system before I put it away for winter. Say a can of True-Fuel and let the motor run at high idle until a whiff of smoke, shut it off and put it away... Bottom line is that 1.) you need a fuel/water separator in the boat a head of the motor filters, and 2.) because of the fuel line resistance with additional filtration, you may need to add an in-line low pressure booster pump to keep the motor happy, and 3.) get all the warranty coverage you can. Buy extended warranty's if they offer them. It'll add cost, but just factor that in. Figuring a boat build is tricky, but satisfying. There are some side by side tests of 4-strokes and 2-stroke Yammies on YouTube. Go see what you can find in your HP rnage... Good luck and have fun smile
 

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All great points. I have asked on this board about the tohatsu motors and I got mixed reviews or opinions on them. My logic was that since they are notorious around the world in both 3rd world countries and other countries that Tohatsu must be doing something right, priced and maintence must not be too bad. That zinc played cooling passage I have not heard but a cool thing to know. There are I think 3 dealers around this county and across the bay that sell tohatsus. I'll request a hard copy brochure from tohatsu's website or a dealer. I will look into their 115, 150hp and 250 soon to find out more about them. I have gone to both YouTube and online reviews like the hull truth to get more info. I just haven't checked out the info on them from other owners on the bbc boards that someone on here told me to check out about the pros and cons of other boat owners. Thanks once again ...
 

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After last post the BBC.org website does NOT list Tohatsu outboards as a topic headline for a forum on their page.
 
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I just got a quote from Boats.Net: Tohatsu MD115A2EPTOL TLDI Price: $8,554.14 They can not ship anything over 20 (Tohatsu), although they can ship Merc and Yamaha to your local dealer fro install. Nobody will warranty a motor (over 20~30 HP) not installed by a dealer with a template, etc. But, the above ought to give you a fair idea on the street price smile
 

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Wish I could find one on Craigslist that a shade tree mechanic fella could then make sure everything is good to go and get for it. Soon enough. Then boat, truck and better life. I just hope 2017 starts off in March we know why I'm March if you aren't liberal, haha Then we may get the ethanol percentages to be wayyyyy less than 15% and go back to less than 5% or 3%. But 8 years has already f d that up.
 

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Jeeper - what bay systems are you talking about running in ?
 
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OBTW - Tohatsu made all the Nissan outboards, and the Merc OptiMax and a bunch of others under their name. They supply outboards and parts/assemblies to lots of other MFG's smile 1956 ushered in the production of the first Tohatsu Outboards (1.5 hp). Since then, Tohatsu outboards have served a variety of marketplaces: commercial fishing, military, marine transport, surf life saving, recreation and competition racing. They are the second largest producer of outboards in the world. Tohatsu produces outboards sold under their own brand, as well as for other companies. For instance, all Nissan outboard engines sold in North America were Tohatsus with a Nissan decal. In 2011, Tohatsu and Evinrude Outboard Motors made a deal to make smaller engines ranging from 15 HP and down with Evinrude decals.
 
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They make Mercs 30 HP or less - the midrange line are now made in a new state of the art plant in - yes - China - another reason I got the F60 - I try to buy American - they let me down with that plant but trying to sell in SE Asian like GM has ... 75 HP up is still Merc USA - OptiMax falls in there. I have a 2006 OptiMax 115 HP ... Been a great motor on 17'-6" Kenner Vision ...
 
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