AWD and wagon-like?

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VOLVO!!!!!

*Edit: Seriously, Subaru was "just not big enough." The Volvo V70 IS big enough for my friend.

In the Subaru, her belly was ON the steering wheel. Couldn't get the Legacy Outback. Juust not big enough. V70 was.

That aside.. for normal-sized people.. Unless its an L.L. Bean Subaru, the Volvo is soo nice. At least the Fuji Heavy Industries, Year 2000-on forward ones are! And still, I am a V70 convert...
 
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
VOLVO!!!!!

*Edit: Seriously, Subaru was "just not big enough." The Volvo V70 IS big enough for my friend.

In the Subaru, her belly was ON the steering wheel. Couldn't get the Legacy Outback. Juust not big enough. V70 was.

That aside.. for normal-sized people.. Unless its an L.L. Bean Subaru, the Volvo is soo nice. At least the Fuji Heavy Industries, Year 2000-on forward ones are! And still, I am a V70 convert...


pics of said friend please
 
Originally Posted By: cbear
Dwarf arms?
I'm 5'10" at 230lbs. I can drive the MIL's Forester just fine.

His friend is 400+ lbs, IIRC.
 
I would go look at a Patriot Latitude with the 5 spd stick.
Unlike most of these "on demand" FWD err AWD,, you can lock the center diff on the Patriot with the lever, will split the tourque 50/50 all the time so none of the FWD nonsense until wheels loose traction and slip. Jeep should be good for 29sh high way, most on the Jeep forum I am on comment excellent gas mileage with the 5spd. they have killer rebates on them too.

Also wife siter has 07CRv, lousey in snow and only gets about 24 mpg with her 80% highway commute, she goes about 25 miles all highway to work and couple miles to highway from house. Says thing fish tails a lot in packed 3-4" of snow on sides streets for example her town cant be bothered to plow until well into morning, even when going slow. Assume better tires would help but she isnt impresses with it.
 
Originally Posted By: Stanley Rockafeller


pics of said friend please


444-airbags.jpg


Joel
 
Ok, I have a rental/loaner 2011 RAV4 I4 AWD while the Camry is getting new tires. [Who buys gold colored vehicles in the first place? No wonder it’s a loaner.] My first impressions, based upon a few miles of city and a few miles of highway:

Not bad. It might be a bit wobbly around town, but I’m coming from a low slung VW which I put on stiffer shocks long ago. Slot car this is not. I did not notice any sort of wobbly on the highway, but it’s clearly not something to be driven in anger (or for fun). I did notice sitting up much higher. Seems quite good for running about town, but I’m not sure I’d call it a great highway hauler. [I’m not sure what “sport” is supposed to mean in “SUV”. I’ve long called my VW an EUV, for Economical Utility Vehicle. Yes, I’m an odd person.] I’m not sure what the complaints are about “dated interior”, but I rarely test drive anything. Didn’t feel bad for the 30min of driving I did, controls about where you’d expect, etc.

The I4 is quite adequate. Any complaints that I read about lack of power must arise from expecting it to never need a downshift once up to speed—I’m sure the V6 downshifts just as much, since it has overdrive whereas the I4 does not, and the same final drive ratio (so it must be loafing most of the time). However, coming from stickshift, it’s clear that, in order to get maximum fuel economy, I would need to use the cruise control heavily—years of stickshift driving has left me the bad habit of “pulsing” the throttle. Works just fine if you have a clutch. In this though the torque convertor is constantly unlocking when I do that.

Although the 4spd auto is “ancient”, I found it decent in its gear selection ability. Yes, it basically needed to downshift for any throttle adjustment, but since it can’t read my mind, I can’t fault it for not picking the right gear ahead of my wanting it. Spirited driving is going to find it necessary to use the manual mode on the automatic, which is well situated and easy to use (no need for flappy paddles); but clearly any sort of spirited driving is going to require lots of rev’s. This vehicle is more of a sedate driver, and if driven sedately not bad.

One thing I will mention: I did not find it to have a hair-trigger throttle. My 2.5L I4 (same I4) Camry does; it likes to rev right up with the slightest provocation. I suspect it has the same throttle programming as the automatics, as I suspect the programming really expects the loading of the torque convertor. Yes, the throttle comes on quick, but it’s much smoother than our stickshift Camry. I have read the older V6 RAV4’s do have a touchy throttle—but then I’ve read that after 2010 or so they might have reprogrammed it. I had no problems driving around in a parking lot despite wearing boots. Perhaps the V6 will be a complete different beast. I hope not.

Of course I found faults. Come on Toyota! Auto up/down on the driver’s window—but not the other three? What foolishness is that? Perhaps it’s fixed on 2012’s or something. Moving on, the rear flip down center console does not sit flat. Not unless if you pull out the center headrest—looks odd, probably not that big of a deal. The seats IMO do not fold flat. “Flat enough” and “flat” are two different things. And you must remove the headrests, or they strike the front seats, unless if those are cranked all the way forward. [Kudos though for headrests that come out easily, regardless of position; and for adjustable seatbacks. I’m really nitpicking here.] The driver’s seat does have more lumbar support than our Camry; but that’s not saying much. Exterior temp display is nice; but what about average mpg display? But the worst bit: what is up with the doors? I thought all Toyota doors just closed with the church-mouse “click” with the slightest swing of the door. These practically needed to be slammed. Very stiff doors, needing to be swung hard. Maybe it’s just because it had all of 2kmiles on the odometer?

I had my wife come down and look at it, and she was of the opinion that you’d never be able to put three booster seats across the back. Not only that, but she pointed out that the middle seat seatbelt is oddly put. The third row appears to be required if one wants to move three small children. Yes, access to the rear would be bad, but as long as they are old enough to buckle in—and not too old to have issues climbing back there—the third row might be necessary. Yes, you lose the cubby holes in the trunk; but I’ve found I can’t really use the cubby holes due to all the other junk normally sitting on top of the trunk anyhow.

Overall, not bad. I don’t think I’d want to trade out of my VW for the I4, I’m not sure it was that good. If I were to wreck the Jetta though it’s definitely high on the list as a compromise vehicle (albeit V6 powered most likely).
 
Originally Posted By: VNTS
I would go look at a Patriot Latitude with the 5 spd stick.
Unlike most of these "on demand" FWD err AWD,, you can lock the center diff on the Patriot with the lever, will split the tourque 50/50 all the time so none of the FWD nonsense until wheels loose traction and slip. Jeep should be good for 29sh high way, most on the Jeep forum I am on comment excellent gas mileage with the 5spd. they have killer rebates on them too.

Also wife siter has 07CRv, lousey in snow and only gets about 24 mpg with her 80% highway commute, she goes about 25 miles all highway to work and couple miles to highway from house. Says thing fish tails a lot in packed 3-4" of snow on sides streets for example her town cant be bothered to plow until well into morning, even when going slow. Assume better tires would help but she isnt impresses with it.


RAV4 has center lock also. I'm also not interested in Dodge--er, Jeep--reliability. I'll go and take a look though.

It must have a torque convertor, unless if it has a low range transfer case. I can also get Toyota employee discount (family relatives), not sure how much but it counts for something.
 
Missed the edit time. Latitude is 2k towing, if equiped with the lower mpg "Freedom II" setup, which I think is lower mpg's, due to a lower final drive ratio? Otherwise it is 1k rated.
 
Found another complaint: Radio display isn't large enough. It is also hard to see with sunglasses on. Toyota set the LCD polarization to 45 degrees, so if I tilt my head to the left it is a bit easier to see. The dash instrumentation is fine, but the radio... I hope the backlight setting is somehow adjustable.

I did drive the I4, and not always nicely, for 46 miles and filled up (to the first click) with 1.519 gallons. No idea how full it was, other than well past full. Maybe they went to the third click. But not bad.

I made sure to pick up a brochure on the way out the door.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Spirited driving is going to find it necessary to use the manual mode on the automatic, which is well situated and easy to use (no need for flappy paddles);

A manual mode? I had one of these as a rental recently and did not see a manual mode there. Or are you just referring to putting the trans in "3" where it prohibits it from engaging the 4th gear?

By the way, according to specs, this trans does have overdrive.

All in all, I was not impressed with this engine/trans combo. Like you said, it would shift to the highest gear very quickly (to improve MPG), and then had to upshift every time a gas pedal was touched. I'd expect the V6 version to not have to do it as much, but it all depends on how it's geared. The 7-speed trans in our C300 does a lot of up-shifting despite having a v6.
 
Err, the 4spd I4 automatic is actually underdrive in 4th. 3.938/2.194/1.411/1.019. V6 is 4.24/2.36/1.52/1.05/0.76. Both use 3.08:1 final drive ratio, with tires that take 724 rev's per mile (P215/70R16, unless if equiped with 17" wheels... hmm, now that I think of it, it's likely equipped with 17's now). I'm going to guess the V6 is just as anxious to hit the tallest gear possible.

In "manual mode", you' right, it's not some quick click up/down, but the old console shifter. I found it easy to pop over for 3rd, then down one for 2nd, all while resting my arm on the center console/armrest.

Funny how I was content with it, and not you. Different tastes, I guess.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Funny how I was content with it, and not you. Different tastes, I guess.

I said I wasn't impressed with it,
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but was it "adequate" as you put it? I guess so. Maybe if it had a manual trans, I would have liked it more.
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I dunno--I think I prefered it in automatic. My diesel requires little shifting, whereas this low torque motor would require more, I'd think. Our Camry requires little shifting though, so perhaps I'm wrong--the 2.5 is relatively gutsy. But I don't thinki it "begs" to be pushed, maybe that is why I'm content with a humdrum setup...?

Just remembered something: my wife told me that it's likely to wind up as her car. Once a week she has to move an extra little one (little being 5 years old); and while they fit across the back in the Camry it's kinda snug. And leaves space for no more (we being like others, have two kids; and our friends tend to have two kids). Hence the third row requirement sneaking in there.
 
Test drove a V6 yesterday, while the Jetta was in the shop for a fuel pump (died on the way to work). V6 has a definate bump in power--BUT--I had the sales rep with me so I didn't feel like I could really honk on it. Price is decent, I guess. I think they've got all the bugs worked out by now (early failing water pumps, some improperly cut gear in the transmission); but on the RAV4World forum someone had a transmission going and everyone was on board with ditching the vehicle, despite only having 165k on it. Seems like a short lifespan vehicle, makes me jittery; and of course there's the fuel economy aspect. I could keep my Jetta, keep the miles low on any other vehicle: but what's the point of spending that much money and then trying to avoid driving it? Something tells me I'd be better off buying some other junker that I won't be so worried about, whether it sat or got driven heavily.
 
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