Avoid 30 wt Euro Oils in US?

[OldCowboy]

I recently purchased a 2017 Audi A4 Quattro. The Owner's Manual said I can use any oil that meets the VW 502 00 or VW 504 00 specification. Looking at http://www.oilspecifications.org/oiltool/oiltool.php I saw there were a large number of 30 wt oils that met the spec. However, when looking at their specifications, I noticed they all had TBNs in the 7-8 range. The 40 wt oils OTOH generally had TBNs in the 10-12 range.

My concern is whether an oil with a TBN of 7 -8 can stand up to the 10,000 mile OCI recommended by Audi. That may be fine in Europe where they have low sulfur gasoline, but I have concerns about using them in the US where our gasoline currently can contain up to 300 ppm.

Thoughts?

 

[wemay]

Not positive, but I thought the US switched over to low sulfur fuels recently. If mistaken, someone will correct.

 

[Quattro Pete]

If it meets VW 502.00 spec, then it likely also meets ACEA A3/B4, in which case it will have TBN of 10 minimum.

If it meets VW 504.00/507.00 spec, then it will have a lower TBN / lower add pack in order to protect emissions equipment on modern diesels.

Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w30 is a good option.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Not positive, but I thought the US switched over to low sulfur fuels recently. If mistaken, someone will correct.

It's a work in progress. For now, the only place that will guarantee ultra low sulfur gasoline at every pump is California.

 

[OldCowboy]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
If it meets VW 502.00 spec, then it likely also meets ACEA A3/B4, in which case it will have TBN of 10 minimum.

If it meets VW 504.00/507.00 spec, then it will have a lower TBN / lower add pack in order to protect emissions equipment on modern diesels.

Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w30 is a good option.



Nay, nay, good poster. Many of the 30 wt Euro oils which meet the VW 502 00 spec don't meet the ACEA A3/B4 spec. here are a couple of examples:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/motul....pdf?1492017670

https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000336/8936-TopTec46055w30-24.0-en.pdf

This one is A3/B4, VW 502, but has a TBN of 8.8. http://catalog.lubricants.total.com/gallery/ORIGINALS/visuels/5500/5903

 

[Quattro Pete]

OK, my bad then. I've never seen these oils at retail. Basically, A3/B4 spec requires a TBN of 10 minimum.

That total oil is POS if they claim ACEA A3/B4 with TBN of only 8.8.

With that said, I don't think you're going to have any issues running an approved oil with TBN of 8 for 10k miles. There is a 1 year limit on your OCI as well.

 

[OldCowboy]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w30 is a good option.



Not so sure about Castrol Edge 0W-30. According to this, it's VW 502 00 and ACEA C3. I'm thinking it would have a TBN in the 7 -8 range. https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Professional-5w30-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B071KLGJNK

 

[drtyler]

Your link is for 5w30, not 0w-30.

Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w30 is a good option.



Not so sure about Castrol Edge 0W-30. According to this, it's VW 502 00 and ACEA C3. I'm thinking it would have a TBN in the 7 -8 range. https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Professional-5w30-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B071KLGJNK

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Forget TBN. This is not a group I diesel oil. Certain preferred long drain basestocks do not require high TBN.

- 10K OCi? Unless I had a 7 litre sump or drove 3K miles / month on the highway = NOGO.

- Oil weight is universally about 7.3lbs/ Gal.

You must mean oil grade; e.g: 30, 40, 50

I apologize in advance for being a %7^^$)

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w30 is a good option.



Not so sure about Castrol Edge 0W-30. According to this, it's VW 502 00 and ACEA C3. I'm thinking it would have a TBN in the 7 -8 range. https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Professional-5w30-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B071KLGJNK

This is the one I'm talking about:
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/Fusio...BPXE-A9TNQ9.pdf

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
I recently purchased a 2017 Audi A4 Quattro. The Owner's Manual said I can use any oil that meets the VW 502 00 or VW 504 00 specification. Looking at http://www.oilspecifications.org/oiltool/oiltool.php I saw there were a large number of 30 wt oils that met the spec. However, when looking at their specifications, I noticed they all had TBNs in the 7-8 range. The 40 wt oils OTOH generally had TBNs in the 10-12 range.

My concern is whether an oil with a TBN of 7 -8 can stand up to the 10,000 mile OCI recommended by Audi. That may be fine in Europe where they have low sulfur gasoline, but I have concerns about using them in the US where our gasoline currently can contain up to 300 ppm.

Thoughts?


The 504.00 oils have the TBN 7-8.

502.00 should have a higher TBN.

 

[Kuato]

FWIW I just had a 9100 mile run with Schaeffer 9000, TBN listed as 7 - 7.5. TBN list of the 7.5; UOA said it could go further as TBN was still good.

I know, I know, different oil different application however I am addressing OP's concern that a 7 to 8 TBN is not enough for 10,000 miles.

 

[CT8]

0W-40 Castrol ???

 

[OldCowboy]

Originally Posted By: drtyler
Your link is for 5w30, not 0w-30.

Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just stick to something that meets VW 502.00 spec and you'll be fine. If you want an Xw-30 oil that meets it, Castrol Edge 0w30 is a good option.



Not so sure about Castrol Edge 0W-30. According to this, it's VW 502 00 and ACEA C3. I'm thinking it would have a TBN in the 7 -8 range. https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Professional-5w30-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B071KLGJNK


You're correct, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[OldCowboy]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
I recently purchased a 2017 Audi A4 Quattro. The Owner's Manual said I can use any oil that meets the VW 502 00 or VW 504 00 specification. Looking at http://www.oilspecifications.org/oiltool/oiltool.php I saw there were a large number of 30 wt oils that met the spec. However, when looking at their specifications, I noticed they all had TBNs in the 7-8 range. The 40 wt oils OTOH generally had TBNs in the 10-12 range.

My concern is whether an oil with a TBN of 7 -8 can stand up to the 10,000 mile OCI recommended by Audi. That may be fine in Europe where they have low sulfur gasoline, but I have concerns about using them in the US where our gasoline currently can contain up to 300 ppm.

Thoughts?


The 504.00 oils have the TBN 7-8.

502.00 should have a higher TBN.


Can you provide a reference for 502 00 TBN requirements? Audi says Liqui Moly Top Tec 4605 SAE 5w30 meets the 502 00 spec. Liqui Moly says it has a TBN of 7.4 https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000336/8936-TopTec4605SAE5w30-24.0-us.pdf

 

[OldCowboy]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
FWIW I just had a 9100 mile run with Schaeffer 9000, TBN listed as 7 - 7.5. TBN list of the 7.5; UOA said it could go further as TBN was still good.

I know, I know, different oil different application however I am addressing OP's concern that a 7 to 8 TBN is not enough for 10,000 miles.


I've got a 5 litre jug of Liqui Moly 2244 5W30 Top Tec 4605 on the way. It's approved for the 502 00 spec with a TBN of 7.4. I think I'll use that for my next OC and have it analyzed at 5000 and 7500 miles.