Ok so my friend who is not-so well off bought a 96 Geo Metro (3 Cylinder) and it barely ran. We have been working on it for the past couple of weeks. So far we replaced the spark plugs, distributor cap, distributor rotor, PCV valve, fuel filter, air filter, spark plug wires, changed the oil to Mobil 1 SuperSyn and Pureolator Pure-One oil filter. I gave him a spare bottle of Auto-RX for his engine at (90,670) miles. I figured the engine was probably full of sludge seeing how the oil filter was full of sludge.
I figured he would need another bottle of auto-rx for the second application and he plans to get one but im doubting auto-rx's ability to tackle what im about to describe.
We removed the valve cover today to find 4-5 inches of sludge, pure sludge, I went out after we replaced the valve cover and got like 9 oil filters (Purolator Pure-One) and told him we needed to change the filter on a contant 500 mile interval probably. We most likely will run 4 more bottles of auto-rx though this beast. We will be going from Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5w-30 to castrol GTX 5w-30 the entire time.
Clean=Mobil 1
Rinse=Castrol
Today we planed to do a transmission drain and fill with Royal Purple Syncromax per my recommendation of the fluid (The metro actually requires synthetic GL-5 Based fluid! Holy crap!) When we removed the drain plug and drained the existing transmission fluid that was black and somewhat chunky I decided to look at the magnetic drain plug to find 1 inch of metal shavings, 1 FULL INCH, I got a ruler, and measured so this is not a joke a full inch of metal shavings. I think the transmission may require 2 treatments of Auto-RX.
Please share your thoughts.
BTW: Since we've done all the work the car runs very very good compared to when we first received it.
[ December 28, 2005, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
***Auto-RX Emergency***
- Thread starter Vspec
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Gotta love a good project.. My ex had one of them 3 cylinder motors. Their cute... Almost put in your pocket. I took the oil cap off once on purpose just to try and kill it on her. Never did stop it..heh
If they hand you a lemon make lemonade....what if they hand you a sludgemonster? ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
Well.....I think I would go a bit more drastic.....I would get some GUNK engine cleaner (solvent) and have at it before I even ran Auto RX through the cycles.....drop the oil pan and clean it up after you have ran the GUNK through it........as for the trannie.....drop the pan...replace the screen...blow the lines out...and run Auto RX through it.....
Well.....I think I would go a bit more drastic.....I would get some GUNK engine cleaner (solvent) and have at it before I even ran Auto RX through the cycles.....drop the oil pan and clean it up after you have ran the GUNK through it........as for the trannie.....drop the pan...replace the screen...blow the lines out...and run Auto RX through it.....I was debating all that, but was hoping to avoid it. Really wish auto-rx was a miracle worker...well honestly it is but not a "engine in a bottle" which is what this kid needs.
Oh and I dont think his trannie has a pan because its 5spd.
Hah
I might try some MMO with some really short drains. Save the A-Rx for the heavy lifting at the end.
Ok, I owned a 3 cylinder metro and while it was never a fun ride it was ultra reliable. I did have problems though with every fastner I ever touched shearing.
My car was always mainted by my wifes boss at jiffy lube with 3000 mile oil changes and all hwy driveing. We bought it at 70,000. I found that while it was sludge free if I ran anything other then 15W40 or 20W50 it burnt a lot of oil if I did hwy driveing. Around town I could run 10W30 and not see any consuption.
If we assume that this engine has never been run dry (big assuption) then their might be hope! As long as the rings will seal and the valve train will function he should be ok. I would worry a bit about the condition of the oil pump if it has been pumping that type of sludge.
Synthtetic oil will double the amount of time it takes for Auto-Rx to clean so it should not be used at all after this initial cleaning phase. I would not use the RP Synchrmax but instead use their GL5 Maxgear. Syncromax is not a GL5 product and is really thin compared to a gear lube! Instead of 4 bottles of Auto-Rx wich is going to be really expensive for this kid you might want to consider Lube Control. Two bottles of Auto-Rx and a gallon of lube control will cost less then 4 bottles of AUto-Rx and will probably do more good in the long run. I think I would do the two auto-rx clean and rinse phases exactly as directed by Frank's instructions! Then I would start useing lube control with the old instructions printed on the bottle! This will offer additional cleaning and will be an on going maintence item!
The 3 cylinder metro engine is ultra reliable and has a really simple fuel and spark control system. These engines are not know for their durability especialy when abused or over heated!If taken care off they will run for a long time even 300,000 miles but the key word is (care)! From your discription it has either been grossly abused by lack of regular oil changes or it has seen a coolant leak that went unrepaired!
Im guessing lack of Oil Changes. I see my topic was relocated had to search to find it again, sorry if I posed in the wrong section. Im still a noob here.
Either way thanks for the information i'll take you up on the recommendation.
Next time we will use Max-Gear. The RP is only gonna be in the Transmission for about 3,000 miles anyways.
BTW: I was thinking of useing Seafoam in both the engine and transmission. After we drain the RX. What do you think? ![[HAIL 2 U!]](/forums/graemlins/worshippy.gif)
I assume you cleaned out the valve cover and valvetrain as much as possible.
1. Fill the engine with Kerosene until its running out the dipstick tube and let sit over night.
2. Drain Kerosene
3. Put in cheap 5W-30 and new oil filter.
4. Remove spark plugs just in case you still have Kerosene in a cylinder. Crank to clear cylinders.
5. Replace Spark Plugs
6. Start engine and run 20 minutes
7. Drain oil
8. Remove pan if possible and clean pan and oil pick-up
9. New Oil and Filter
10. Now try less harsh methods for final clean up.
Gene
I agree with Gene,but I'd warm the engine up, drain the oil and then add the kerosene while the engine is still warm. (If you can't rest you hand on the exhaust manifold, the engine is still too hot). This warming of the fluid will increase the solvency of the kerosene....
I'd take the valve cover off and manually clean as much gunk as possible w/ a wooden paint stirrer. Then I'd use a paint brush with kero and clean the remaining sludge. Allow the kerosene to run out of the drain pan as you do this.
Tooslick
Sounds like i've got a few possibilties. Im gonna list a few of my idea's and see what everyone thinks is best.
Plan 1.
1. Run the Auto-RX thats currently in the engine to remove as much sludge as possible for now. (So not to waste the Auto-RX that's currently in the engine).
2. Buy a can of Sea-Foam, and drain the oil. Put fresh conventional oil in the car. Run the seafoam for 30 minutes? Then drain the oil again.
3. Fill the engine with fresh oil with Conventional oil and run the car for 1,000 miles
drain and switch back to Synthetic. (High-End synthetic like Royal Purple.)
Plan 2.
1. Add lots of Kerosene to the current oil when the engine is warm.
2. Let the car sit overnight with the Kerosene in the engine.
3.Drain the Oil\Kerosene mix.
4.Add cheap-o conventional oil and run for 20-30 minutes.
5. Drain the oil and replace again (including filter both times.)
6.Try other products.
(And also lower the pan and clean it out.)
When we run conventional. What is a conventional oil that runs the STRONGEST additive package?
As for the transmission.
Does the Kerosene work there too? Can I drain the current RP and add Kerosene and let it sit over night drain then add some ****** Tranie oil, run, drain, then add Good Stuff like RP-MaxGear?
Any word on Kerosene in the Transmission?
If the okay is given to put kerosene in the transmission (I'd do it in my car but I'm not qualified to recommend such an action...) try to fill it up near the top. Perhaps you can remove a speedo cable or an air vent to fill the transmission. Don't fill it up all the way, you want to be able to slosh it around while jumping on the bumper.
Steve
After discussing all the possibilties. My friend Phil decided he would rather not use a solvent in fear of damaging a Seal. So this is the plan we have developed. It only requires 2 more bottles of auto-RX. Seeing how there is already one in the engine.
Engine.
1. Drive 1,500 Miles on the Clean Phase.
2. Change oil and oil filter (Conventional Oil Use)
3. Drive 2,000 miles on just the new oil and oil filter.
4. Change Oil and Oil Filter (Conventional)
5. Add Second bottle of Auto-RX
6. Drive 1,500 Miles
7. Change Oil and Oil Filter (Conventional)
8. Drive 3,000 Miles
9. Switch to Synthetic Redline 5w-30
Oil Changes: 4
Bottles of A-RX: 1
Transmission
1. Drive 1,500 miles with RP SyncroMax
2. Drain transmission fluid and change to RP MaxGear.
3. Add 6 ounces of Auto-RX to the transmission.
4. Drive 1,000 miles and drain transmission.
5. Add another 6 ounces of Auto-RX to the transmission.
6. Drive 1,000 miles and drain Transmission.
7. Refill Transmission with RP MaxGear
Oil Changes: 3
Bottles of A-RX: 1
Well, if your friend is $$ limited, I would not be shelling out $5 a pop on oil filters, especially when you're going to go through ten of them on short changes.
Buy $2 ones, save $30, use it for more Auto RX or whatever.
I generally wouldn't advocate kerosene (though I've certainly done it a few times over the years), but in your case I would.
TooSlick recommendation is on the spot. Manually remove as much as you can!
I wouldn't use a synthetic, or any more A-Rx until (after rinse phase of current run) you've gone the kerosene route. With that much sludge I wouldn't be afraid to use it (lack of lubrication is why I am otherwise hesitant).
I just recently bought a case of DELO 10W-30 conventional diesel-rated oil (better cleaning/keep-stuff-in-suspension properties than non-diesel rated oils) for both of my vehicles to get their annual ARX enema.
Run some short OCI's (like, when it blackens, not just darkens) on an HDD 10W-30 with inexpensive filters. At least 1000-miles or 3-months each, my best guess.
And use some of that money to get some LUBE CONTROL to add to the brew, at least 6-ozs at beginning of each oil change. And, a Mola-Soak at some point.
Save the ARX money until the problem slows down, becomes steady. Then go after it per Franks instructions. Think of it as the final tuning.
Obviously, make sure all the rest (wires, terminations, hoses, filters, other fluids, etc) is new or in verfied good working order.
God luck.
Thanks i'll have to rethink my attack plan for this ****ed Metro. I'll keep you guys updated.
I would not put any strong solvents (kerosine or SeaFoam) because they may cause a large chunk of sludge to dislodge and plug the oil strainer. It happend recently to a guy near me. He had an engine flush done at a quickie lube joint, and 100 miles later the engine locked up. Tear down revealed a plugged oil pump strainer.
How much trouble is it to remove the oil pan? Your time and money would probably be better spent cleaning the oil pan and valve cover by hand.
Not hard at all to do anything on this Metro...its a Metro there pretty simple.
Probably drop the pan.
With all that Sludge? Man Iwould use those strong 10 minute engine flushes at Advance auto parts.
Vspec,
Can you snap some digital pics the next time you guys take the valve cover off & post them here?
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