Audi Doing Amsoil Advertising?

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quote:

Originally posted by ssmokn:
Interesting... I don't own one of these vehicles/motors but what is the general consensus between the Belgium Castrol 5W40 and Mobil 1 0W40? Which is the better oil for these motors? Which is the better oil of these two overall?

These two oils are rarely discussed in a head-to-head comparison. Both seem to have a "love it or hate it" appeal. The haters hate Syntec 5w40 because it's group III, & they hate M1 0w40 because it shears out of grade. That's the way I see it, anyway.
 
Hi,
Pablo - you said;

"The funny thing is that Amsoil 5W-40 is far superior to Mobil 0W-40, but use what makes you happy, that's what is important!"

The difference is in the Porsche Warranty issue Amsoil is NOT Approved. Does it matter - you know it does

I have not "knocked" ANY Amsoil product - it is simply the marketing/selling mis-information techniques I dislike!

I do use lubricants that make me happy - a selection from Shell, Castrol and Mobil

As for one oil being "far superior" to another - objectively prove it Pablo!

Regards
Doug
 
Check the UOA's.

If Porsche wants to prove the oil used caused the failure then it does matter. It's not a concern because the oil is better than at least the Mobil 0W-40. If the warranty has run out then it doesn't matter, either - choose something better than the Mobil 0W-40!
 
Pablo - you have been on this Board long enough to know that oils cannot be judged solely via UOAs and miniscule movements in wear metals

My, how sensitive you Amsoil fellows become when confronted with reality!

IMHO Amsoil have good products - but to be in the real league Amsoil needs to spend the money and take the medicine as others like Motul, FUCHS etc do. Approval & Listing MEANS something to them!

Knocking a competitors world acclaimed products
does you no good and diminishes your image

In the case of Porsche the extended test protocols tell a real story. Perhaps that is why Amsoil does not submit lubricants for Approval - or have they submitted them and failed?
Could it be due to viscosity issues like thickening, foaming or volatility - I don't know

Please don't diminish the image of a good product (Amsoil) by competitor bashing!!!!

Regards
wink.gif

Doug
 
OT: what amazes me is that VW/Audi has to put this sort of stuff out... It is very suprising how many times I read that someone's 1.8T or someone's A4 was run on dino 5w-30, etc for nnnnn miles. MB had a bit of a scuffle at the beginning, but anyone that actually read the materials, etc. would have known to use syn oil. BMW - synthetic, Saab - synthetic...

VW/Audi - stupid owners that want to go to pep boys and get the oil changed with the cheapest junk they can find???

What is it with VW/audi folks that all this dino oil stuff keeps coming back, with little more than a mere reccomendation for synthetic oil?

flame suit on...

JMH
 
JHZR2, some manufacturer's don't seem to have very tight control over what their dealerships are doing, either. Better to try and educate the public? Didn't MB have some problems with dealers pumping out of spec. dino?
 
The problem in N.A., is the DIY and Quick Lube market...in Europe all services are done by dealerships or independent shops who understand these requirements and recieve periodic spec updates from the OEM's.
 
The problem is that approved oil lists don't work in the USA and the API is too wrapped up in being the aPi (big P emphasized). Other than that Joe USA doesn't care nor know nor give a hoot about some european oil specifications!

my FLAMESUIT is on and zipped up a little too tight
 
quote:

Originally posted by haley10:
Didn't MB have some problems with dealers pumping out of spec. dino?

My understanding was that it wasnt that the dealers were ONLY pumping dino, or that the dino was out of spec with typical MB standards (though there are no MB 229.5 dino oils), its that they offered owners a choice, syn or dino, and Mr or Ms. Keepingupwiththejonses decided to save a few bucks on a car they likely couldnt afford to begin with. Most do have a wal-mart mentality afterall, even in the world of Mercedes.

The dealerships were mostly using a castrol 15w-40 or pennzoil long life. Both met MB 228.3, which is overwhelmingly similar to 229.3 and 229.5. Obviosuly though the dino didnt fit the bill.

After the dealerships stopped giving an option (except to the old time MB dieselers), the problems stopped... However it was too late as the class action lawsuit had begun.

JMH
 
Sensitive? Check yourself, Dougie - the old mirror in the hallway. Man posts information on VW/Audi brochure. Dougie jumps in do to what? Bash Amsoil. Amazing, really.

I am not competition bashing, nor am I sensitive, I am merely setting you straight. You jumped into this bashing Amsoil. I'm not sure why.

Merely stating that M1 0W-40 is not that great of a motor oil may be diminishing to you, but it is reality. I mean it is a good oil, but looking at it's real world performance in viscosity and wear after VERY short intervals sorta makes me think the tests you refer to are not that strict if this is the top tier oil.

Amsoil does not market in mainland Europe and does not compete directly with Motul and Fuchs (both have minuscule US sales). The company chooses not to waste money on sending samples to Porsche, because the dollars used would not be returned in US sales. I am not sure how much Porsche charges. Amsoil is tested to standardized tests and the numbers are published, so I'm not sure what you are referring to. This part of your diatribe almost sounds like bashing...the numbers are there AND they are proven in real world usage.
 
Pablo - I never bashed Amsoil in this thread, I merely pointed out the mis-information on the Amsoil container! It lives - like it or not!

I ask you, - you said;
"The .4 is a typo"
(this referred to the printed "DaimlerChrysler 229.4" on the container)

Are there other typos too??

Here in OZ when containers of Delvac 1 5w-40 were incorrectly labeled and had MB228.5 stated on them in 2001-2, ExxonMobil re-labled the lot! In this period they withdrew the product from sale to avoid such mis-information!!!!

I have also never said that M1 0w-40 was a "great oil" but it has an excellent international track record as do many other 0w-40 lubricants of other brands.
The persistant references to excessive shearing causing excessive valve train wear and the likes concerning M1 0w-40 HAVE NEVER BEEN SUBSTANTIATED BY YOU (and by my mate Ted)!

My references to Porsche's Test protocols were to confirm that the Amsoil product referred to here has NOT been tested to their satisfaction!

If this Amsoil product (5w-40, CI-4/SL) was readily available here I would be delighted to run some in one of my trucks for a year alongside the database on Delvac 1 and Castrol's RX Super and Enduro LD. And I would be delighted to publish the results on here

Pablo, it is just that with more and more sophistication in engine design and the complexity of Warranty legalities mis-information is simply a risk to the consumer.
As you may recall we had this discission about a year ago concerning ACEA and Euro heavy diesel engine lubricant standards. The same applies here and now!

I would NEVER advise a client of mine to use a product that did not conform to the letter of the Warranty Law applicable. As stated last year I have seen the consequences in this country and elsewhere - and I have seen the enormous $ costs too!

What one does outside of Warranty is another thing and purely owner driven

It is simply a Commercial decision by Amsoil NOT to become Approved and Listed (or is it?). In this case they must surely be prepared for such contingencies as our "friendly" debates on here

Regards
Doug
 
No other typos that I know of. Amsoil is a small company and probably decided it just doesn't matter because the spec doesn't exist in the first place.

Doug - here's the problem (and my last post on the subject): Using the word "mis-information" is indeed bashing - I am wondering why you struggle with this concept so much. Amsoil as a company is RECOMMENDING their oil (the oil in said container) for the listed applications. This is NOT deception. Not trickery. Really quite straight forward. If the oil fails in recommended use, Amsoil will pay.

End of conversation.
 
quote:

The company chooses not to waste money on sending samples to Porsche

...well, who DO they send samples to for oem/governing bodies testing???
dunno.gif


API or ACEA would be a good start.
 
SShhhhhhssssssssss....

Audi Junkie - you may wake up the sleeping tiger

After all Pablo said this;

"End of conversation."

I'm off quietly as the ball has been dropped by the other side!

Regards
Doug
 
You can't compare the Amsoil 5w-40 to the Mobil 1, 0w-40 as the 5w-40 is one SAE grade thicker in terms of HT/HS viscosity (4.2 Cp, vs 3.6 Cp). The Amsoil 5w-40 is also much more shear stable and will reduce valve train wear, oil consumption and subjective engine NVH, compared to the Mobil 1, 0w-40. Feel free to run your own comparisons in ANY engine you choose...
wink.gif


The ACEA program requires self certification and is not a formal licensing program. You simply have to keep the documentation of file showing your additive chemistry meets the test. In a similar fashion, Amsoil is recommending their 5w-40 for Porsche applications based on the basestock and additive package being used.

Amsoil fully warrantees the use of their 5w-40 in Porsche engines and would pay any damages resulting from the failure of the oil to perform, for the service intervals recommended by Porsche. This is true if the engine had 10,000 miles on it or 300,000 miles on it, provided there are no pre-existing mechanical problems. It's a very simply concept - I think even Doogie can understand it.
smile.gif


Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics
 
Hi,
Ted - you said;
"You can't compare the Amsoil 5w-40 to the Mobil 1, 0w-40..........."

Now Ted a few of us on here already know that thanks. However, you can compare it to M1 5w-40 T&SUV if you wish.......
It was Pablo who introduced this unsubstantiated classic;
"The funny thing is that Amsoil 5W-40 is far superior to Mobil 0W-40..............."

He tried to compare them - goodness me!!!!

Actually Porsche and Benz have the choice of using M1 0w-40 or M1 5w-40 - they both chose to use 0w-40! Even for long drains and all that stuff!!!!

Ted you comment;
"The problem in N.A., is the DIY and Quick Lube market...in Europe all services are done by dealerships or independent shops who understand these requirements and recieve periodic spec updates from the OEM's."

That is only partly true but in this case as here in OZ they do use Approved and Listed oils too!

Mis-information on Oil Company labels (whatever the Company) does not help the best end result or the Manufacturer's intent either of course

To cap this thread off, y.p.w's posted link to the VW Approved Oils List does NOT show a VW502 Amsoil product Listed!!

Oh well, another Amsoil marketing thread comes to an end

Regards
Doug
 
Perhaps Audi did not to endorse a real....competetive brand of oil and chose a more generic labeling example.
 
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