I think both.
ATF Fluid Question, LEGIT
- Thread starter Gebo
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This was before, early, early models, 2003-2005.
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Synthetics have always been the exception not the rule for ATF's.
AutoMechanic
Site Donor 2023
Never used synthetic transmission fluid. I use whatever is recommended for our vehicles. Our 2004 Camry I am going to change soon and replace the pan gasket on because it is leaking. The fluid is original and 279,000 later it is dirty but the transmission hasn’t went yet and isn’t showing signs. No joke its original never had problems with it so haven’t changed it. But I am going to since I have to do the pan gasket anyway. So I trust conventional fluid completely.
MolaKule
Staff member
How do you know that they are not Blends of various groups?
Remember the good old days of sperm whale oil? Now that was good stuff.
The sperm whale oil was mostly esters, if I remember what I read about it.
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Is it really beaten to death though? Compared to oil it’s going to spend most of its life “clean”, clean as is...it won’t be dealing with the byproducts of combustion (soot, HC’s, carbon, oxides of nitrogen and god knows what else). Even the temperature changes aren’t as extreme, it’s more gradual, rather than boom! Ice cold engine turns into a furnace in seconds, producing water and acid.
Tranny fluid deals with heat, but often operates in the 190-210 temp range. It deals with pressure in the clutches and valve body, but mostly it’s just a hydraulic fluid that will eventually gather enough clutch material in it that it needs to be changed and a little bit of metal from break In. And unlike most hydraulic systems, it will be filtered the entire time (with a huge filter and magnets in the pan). The pan will have pair usually blowing up against it for cooling, and a lot of cars have a transmission cooler.
So, I’m not sure just how tough of a life it has. Then again with people going 100,000 plus miles between fluid changes - some even much higher (or never at all) - I’ll give the fluid credit for being tough/durable in that regard, but for the most part I think it has a half decent-somewhat easy life in an automobile. But having all of this^^^, I still change mine at least every 50,000 miles and quite honestly, more like every 30,000 miles. Knock on wood I’ve never lost an automatic transmission...and I’ve taken one all the way to 300,000 miles and another to just about 200,000.
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The thing that is confusing is, some people that rebuild differentials prefer conventional diff fluid over synthetic because they say it “sticks” to the gears better. Transmissions are different in the sense that they aren’t slinging oil all over the place, but perhaps manufacturers just think that it’s not worth the extra cost to have synthetic fluid? Lord knows they’ll do anything to save even a few pennies on each individually produced automobile. Ask any automotive engineer that works for any of the big car manufacturers...I knew a Hyundai/Kia engineer who later worked forToyota. I asked him once why a manufacturer wouldn’t improve something that seemed so simple - he said he’s been laughed out of Monday morning product meetings for even suggesting improvements to things like sun visors or even volume knobs on a stereo. If it cost more than even a dime, it will cost the manufacturers millions. He said Hyundai was the absolute worst. He said Toyota was much better but even they wouldn’t do many of the things they suggested.
Take Toyota tranny fluid, Toyota calls it “lifetime” in the states, yet it isn’t synthetic. But I’ll tell you what; I’ve used this stuff for 100,000’s of thousands of miles in my Toyota’s and Lexus. I’ve never had an issue with it. Meanwhile I’ve had GM’s with DEX Vl and I didn’t know if I was using conventional, a blend or full synthetic whenever I bought and replaced that fluid. I just never could get an Answer if it was full synthetic, blend, or if it even mattered. So I don’t think the whole...synthetic vs conventional means all that much in an automatic Transmission. Yet I guess I’d prefer synthetic, because I just like better quality stuff.
Take Toyota tranny fluid, Toyota calls it “lifetime” in the states, yet it isn’t synthetic. But I’ll tell you what; I’ve used this stuff for 100,000’s of thousands of miles in my Toyota’s and Lexus. I’ve never had an issue with it. Meanwhile I’ve had GM’s with DEX Vl and I didn’t know if I was using conventional, a blend or full synthetic whenever I bought and replaced that fluid. I just never could get an Answer if it was full synthetic, blend, or if it even mattered. So I don’t think the whole...synthetic vs conventional means all that much in an automatic Transmission. Yet I guess I’d prefer synthetic, because I just like better quality stuff.
I read an article, years and years (perhaps decades) ago, saying that once the whaling restrictions came in, the whale oils in ATF were replaced with oils derived from pig lard, and shortly afterwards AT failures spiked dramatically.
I don't remember the source, or know whether it was true. It might have been advertising for a transmission additive.
OK, engine oil and transmission fluid are both designed to get beaten to death. Sure, trans oil does not deal with combustion byproducts and does not see temperatures as high as engine oil, but as you said, trans fluid is not changed nearly as often as engine oil. So even going just 50k miles, I say yes trans fluid gets beaten to death. It has zero influence from combustion chemistry yet it still changes color. My $0.02
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Oh yeah, definitely, I changed mine at 50,000 miles and the stuff was almost black.
It’s an interesting subject...on one hand I think it has a relatively “easy” life, but on the other...I could very well be 100% wrong about that. And definitely if you tow=tough life on tranny fluid.
