ATF experiences for DEX II/III application

[INDYMAC]

I offer this anectdote reluctantly, because I'm not entirely sure of the cause and effect from my experience with various ATF's for my 2000 Tundra (specs DEX II/III). But I offer it because I still think it might have some merit for those folks with similar vintage vehicles.

My Tundra transmission has been regularly serviced by Toyota up until recently (133K miles now). At 120K they did a flush (drain, filter change, fill) and my Tundra ran OK for awhile. But I noticed the shifts from 2-3 started to get more noticeably firm on occasion. The dealer said they put DEX III in, but it very easily could have been T-IV Toyota fluid. They did not find anything unusual in the pan, so I assume the transmission is holding up well mechanically.

Since being a good BITOGer, curiosity got the best of me and I decided to try AMSOIL ATD to see if that would smooth out the random firm shifts. So I bought 4 gallons of ATD in order to do a flush with a BG machine at 131K miles. Unfortunately, due to BG machine operator incompetence, I only got approximately 6-7 quarts of ATD in my transmission and didn't have anymore to do a complete fill. So I ended up settling for Valvoline full synthetic DEX VI to top it off. To make a long story short, I ended up with a 50/50 mix of ATD and DEX VI. This brew proved to be very smooth for awhile, but eventually led to some very violent 2-3 shifts (think being bumped in a NASCAR race). After about 3K miles and 4 of these scary hard shifts, I decided to find a new plan.

I decided to try Scaeffers #204 SAT (DEX III Supreme) and changed it out last week. I took it to the same shop to use the BG machine again, but with a different Tech. I also had him drop the pan and change the filter. We also discussed changing the 2-3 shift solenoid (there have never been any CEL codes to verify a bad one), but decided to hold off on this until we determine whether the new fluid would do the trick. So far, so good. The transmission is shifting very smoothly (crossing fingers), but only time will tell.

Thoughts:
-I'm not convinced that backward compatibility was a priority wrt Toyota T-IV or DEX VI for earlier transmissions.
-I wish ATD could have been singularly evaluated in my case. Maybe someone else could chime in wuth their experience with DEX II/III applications.
-Bring lots of extra fluid if you plan to do a machine flush. The #204 SAT event took 22 quarts!
-I've read several posts on Tundrasolutions.com where owners of similar vintage Tundra's have had random hard 2-3 shifts that led to transmission failure. I'm hoping that it's because they had the wrong fluid in there. We'll see.

 

[mikeg5]

the v8 takes quite a bit of qts.. if it says dexIII then use dexIII. pretty simple, people here will tell you other wise but there are few people i trust on here bc you do tend to get more opinions rather than fact. anyway, if the selenoid isnt much go ahead and replace it. it will need replacing anyway down the road..(btw you have spent an ---- load of $ on tranny fluid).. they may have used T-IV and i hope they didnt bc it is very different than DEXIII.. to be quite honest just save the $ and go with Valvoline Maxlife DEX\MERC. i use that in my tacoma with 95k miles and do a drain and fill every 15k miles. its a blend and works well. plus its only 3.50$ a quart... if i were you i would drain all atf out and start over along with replacing the selenoid if its not to expensive... imo

 

[unDummy]

Use any dexron-iii compatible fluid. Dexron-III is not a licensed spec anymore.
Both the Maxlife and Schaeffers are excellent multivehicle universal ATF's.

Are you rechecking your ATF level correctly after all the work from the shop is complete?
Have you done any 'overnight battery disconnects' after the fluid changes?

Backwards compatibility might not be on the OE agenda. But, this does not mean that the aftermarket can not address backwards or cross compatibility.

I visited a local Toyota dealer. They used Advantage universal ATF in place of DexronIII and T-IV everywhere possible. Toyota ATF was only used if requested by the owner, who were obviously charged retail per quart for that fluid.
http://www.advancedlubes.com/pdf/universal-synthertic-atf.pdf

 

[INDYMAC]

I just picked up my 650# lawnmower (80 miles round trip) and everything worked very smoothly under various driving conditions. I'm hoping the #204 SAT is the ticket.
-On the 50/50 brew, I ran for quite awhile with it about 1/2 qt low. When I topped it off with more Valvoline syn DEX VI, that is when the really violent shifting started to occur.
-The current Schaeffer's fill is topped off and not overfilled (checked hot on level driveway while running engine).
-I did replace the battery a couple of weeks ago before I did the most recent flush. Do you think this resetting the ECU overnight is a good idea on my current fill undummy?
-I honestly can't evaluate all the universal ATF's, but so far #204 SAT is off to a good start. I think ATD would have done well if given a legitimate chance. I just didn't have enough spare cash to buy 6 gallons. The Schaeffers was somewhat less expensive. I'm pretty convinced that DEX II/III users should stay away from DEX VI and Type IV though.
-Hopefully, I can avoid soleniod changes until this fill is ready to be changed. I need some more time and money!

 

[mikeg5]

just ride it out and let us know how it goes.. yes, the only way to properly check your tranny fluid is when the tranny is HOT (atleast 15 minutes of driving) and check it while its running.... it wouldnt hurt to unplug the battery overnight to reset the computer (even though the computer will reset within seconds and i dont know why people say leave it off overnight maybe some computers are different).. but it cant hurt either way .. good luck

 

[ARB1977]

I used Redline D4 in my D3 auto tranny with awesome results. Currently ive got Redline D4 and Amsoil Universal ATF.

 

[unDummy]

You'd be surprised how 'little' power is needed to 'remember' on a computer.
Why I mention the overnight unplug is because it takes a while for the capacitors to discharge. Usually a few minutes, and not seconds are all that is needed. What I do is disconnect the battery prior to pulling drainplugs/pans.... whatever. By the time I'm ready to start the vehicle, the AT 'forgetting' should be all done.

So, I will still recommend the battery disconnect overnight prior to going to bed. Reconnect before driving to work and be done with it. Sure beats wondering whether 30seconds, 5 minutes....were enough. Every vehicle is different.

A full flush of the ATD or the Dexron VI would've been interesting. Because of the incompetence of the tech/shop, you'll never know.

With a drainplug, the Tundras that I service usually take 5 quarts. Why not simply pick a fluid, do a quick/easy drain/refill of the pan, and avoid all the flushing shenanigans? A drain/refill once a year or every 10k miles would be easy.

 

[Volvohead]

Quote:

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I'm pretty convinced that DEX II/III users should stay away from DEX VI and Type IV though.

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Well . . . we run Dex VI in our Dex III AW 4-speed and it performs just fabulously. Best shift quality ever and it has held up fine.

 

[mikeg5]

but that AW is different from Tundras.. so there is no merit in the statement Volvo.. and yes a simple drain and fill every 10-20k miles should be good enough and never have to have a flush.. ALOT of toyota places DO NOT recommend flushing. i know the ones in my area do not. they just drop the pan, clean the screens and magnets and put 4-5 qts of new tranny fluid in there and call it a day.. i have 95k miles on my tacoma and never had the screens cleaned or anything. just a drain and fill every 15k miles or so with maxlife

 

[MikeR]

Did the Toyota dealer do a flush or did they do a drain and fill? I'd be hesitant to do a flush, especially for a trans with over 100k on it.

Seems to me the best way to test the issue is to fill it with whatever Toyota spec'd for the car. DexVI is backwards compatible with DexIII, but this early in DexVI's life I'd only generalize that to applications where DexIII was originally specified. "One size fits all" ATF's throw up a big red flag for me personally, synthetic or not.

Just my 2 ppm.