ARX and rinse oil confusion

[Rick20]

To maximize the effectiveness of an ARX cleaning, instructions should be followed. Mineral oils, simple dino is the best way to go. As ARX penetrates into sludge and hard carbonized deposits it sets the stage whereby the deposits are now there for the taking into the host oil. ARX impregnated deposits are suspended into the host oil and carried to the filter media. The process is very slow and methodical and is simply best accomplished in simple dino oil formulations.
As a kicker the rinse is for only 2000 miles, why shell out the extra scratch on any higher priced oil. Plain Jane Chevron, Castrol, Penzoil, Haviland, and many others work very well. What you should avoid in the rinse phase are the "high mileage", or "start up protection" oils. They do not accept the impregnated deposits as well. And unless you motor specifies full synthetic only, synthetics don't function as well either. If your motor requires synthetics, run the rinse phase longer, 3000-3500 miles.

The folks at ARX agree that the normal cleaning cycle can be extended beyond 1500 miles, but chose not to recommend it because of a fair number of neglected, highly sludge motors out in the market place.

The reason why we don't like any "start up protection" oils is that they they have polar attraction to metal. Its very difficult to rinse parts clean with polar cling.

These oils are perfectly fine to run once your application is complete, cleaning phase and rinse phase. As a matter of fact these oils will function better with clean metal surfaces to work with.

These are my observations using ARX in over 30 cars, in the last 5 years.

 

[Ken2]

As I read Castrol's literature, only their "start up" oil has polarizing action. Their "oil for high mileage engines" likely has some ester for seal conditioning. Both of these work against Auto-Rx's action.

The plane GTX has none of these mentioned in the literature nor the not-very-specific MSDS.


Ken

 

[Rick20]

TonyMazz, you are good to go. Regular GTX thats been around for years is a good rinse oil. Castrol has come out with new formulations that may not not rinse as well. I think there was alot of confusion on another string about Castrol products. In the final analysis regular GTX was used as the rinse. And from the pictures alot of cleaning had occurred.

Let us know how you make out.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

What about all the new formulations due to SM GF4? For instance I believe all ConocoPhillips oils are synthetic blend. Pretty soon, there will be no "dino" oils left.

 

[VgRt6]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rick20:
Regular GTX thats been around for years is a good rinse oil.

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Not according to Frank. If you read though this
recent thread, you'll see that Frank specifically refers to "regular" GTX as not being appropriate for the rinse phase.

I wish we could get a straight answer on this.

Gary

 

[Rick20]

Gary,

The straight answer is that regular Castrol GTX works fine as a rinse oil. Works great in the cleaning phase as well.

As for all oils being synthetic, thats not a problem either. ARX works well in the cleaning phase, I would run it a bit longer. A successful rinse can be accomplished in 3000-3500 miles as well.

On another note, these oils that are currently being advertized with polar bonding to metal, it seems that everybodies got one, now. To me it would seem that the oil left in the top of the motor would cook after shut down. Any experienced?

 

[VgRt6]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rick20:
The straight answer is that regular Castrol GTX works fine as a rinse oil. Works great in the cleaning phase as well.

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I agree. But why won't Frank admit it?

Gary

 

[Bio-T]

quote:

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Originally posted by VgRt6:

quote:

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Originally posted by Rick20:
The straight answer is that regular Castrol GTX works fine as a rinse oil. Works great in the cleaning phase as well.

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I agree. But why won't Frank admit it?

Gary

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I just had an email conversation with Frank and he apologized to everyone for the mix up. He was referring to the Magnetec and had it confused with the GTX. I think he deals with to many oils.

I think the recommendations above on the oils to use are great. Easily available.

 

[VgRt6]

quote:

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Originally posted by 59 Vetteman:
I just had an email conversation with Frank and he apologized to everyone for the mix up. He was referring to the Magnetec and had it confused with the GTX. I think he deals with to many oils.

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Thanks!

Gary

 

[TonyMazz]

Great! Thanks for driving this so that all understand !

I am pleased cause I have a fresh case and now onward to my ARx project....

Thanks again !

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by 59 Vetteman:
I just had an email conversation with Frank and he apologized to everyone for the mix up. He was referring to the Magnetec and had it confused with the GTX. I think he deals with to many oils.

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Frank has a difficult task because of all the possible conditions his product has to deal with and the bazillion possible oils it might be used with.

Fortunately his product works and he is a more than decent guy to deal with.

We are also fortunate to have the creater of the product available here for consultation.

 

[TonyMazz]

Great and thank you for starting this thread.

My specifics: 99' 4.3L 166,000 miles. Currently running ARx with Castrol GTX 5W-30 Dino oil for the "Cleaning Phase" of my dual treatment. I am about 1400 miles into and went out and bought a case of Castrol GTX 5W-30 dino oil for my next 3 phases.

So with your above experiences can we drill down to a specific oil "Castrol GTX 5W-30" for my rinse. This oil is not polarized (to my knowledge) and is not labled High Mileage, and is not blended oil (except for the additive packages of course) but simply put.

Can I use this oil for my rinse or do I have to invest in another oil specifically for the rinse.

I want to maximize my rinse and do things "by the book" ....and of course the book says "it works with any oil" but dino is preferred for the rinse...

Can someone provide accurate advice as to yes/no use this oil and/or why not.

Thank you BITOG!!

 

[Rick20]

Mr. znamya Sir,

I will admit that most of my 30 car experiences, were using dino(Chevron in most cases) as the rinse oil. However, I have read and listened to many posts on this message board, in years prior, that rinsing with certain oils were not as effective. Not to say that they were not effective. I have done two cars with Mobil 1 in the rinse phase, but found that additional miles with this PAO synthetic in the rinse mode was advantageous. Besides, I am a cheap &*($#@^, and wanted to get the most out of my oil left cheek purchase. I have also found that going back and doing a clean phase and rinse with dino, on a motor that used synthetics, for both clean and rinse, there was more to be gained. I can not prove that the same would not have occurred running a full synthetic again. But for the money with short change out intervals, in my cases dino kept my left cheak a bit more compressed.

 

[TonyMazz]

quote:

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Originally posted by bfort44:
Is this issue now dead? I have never seen so many men make so many mountain's out of so many mole hills! I am a 61 year old widow that know's nothing about car's. I bough Auto-Rx, got my oil changed at the Toyota dealership, told them NO synthetic oil and the result's have been fabulous. Why are all you trying to make this rocket science? If I can get it to work in my car, surly you guy's can figure this out, just follow direction's if all else fails!

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Ha Ha...this is because we enjoy 'pickin fly **** out of pepper' with a level of exactness that makes this forum so valuable. We were down at the polarized molecules haha and that's detailed !!!

 

[bfort44]

Is this issue now dead? I have never seen so many men make so many mountain's out of so many mole hills! I am a 61 year old widow that know's nothing about car's. I bough Auto-Rx, got my oil changed at the Toyota dealership, told them NO synthetic oil and the result's have been fabulous. Why are all you trying to make this rocket science? If I can get it to work in my car, surly you guy's can figure this out, just follow direction's if all else fails!

 

[znamya]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rick20:

These are my observations using ARX in over 30 cars, in the last 5 years.

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No offense but if these observations are only based on these 30 application, it is worthless, why? because for it be scientific, you need to have two exact samples (in this case, same exact engines with same exact driving patterns, which is impossible) then rinse one with semi-synth oil and the other with dino oil. If the results are different than that's the result. I dont think you can compare car A with car B. Also did you put any synthetic oil during the rinse phase of any of these 30 vehicles and observed far less cleaning? thanks

 

[bfort44]

Well it's nice to know you guy's know something about fly poop!Darn I never thought to look in the pepper for it, thank's for the info....

 

[bulwnkl]

Would you care to comment on using a dino HDEO for the cleaning or rinse phases? I am going to do a cleaning of my Subaru shortly but would really like to use my JD +50 oil that I have on hand.

[ May 26, 2005, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: bulwnkl ]

 

[TonyMazz]

...and to nail the coffin on this thread here is an email direct from Castrol asking if GTX has changed other than for oxidation reasons...

The product (GTX) has been upgraded to meet ILSAC GF-4/API SM specifications.
GF-4/SM engine oils will offer a significant improvement in high temperature
protection and deposit control over minimum GF-3/SL oils. Especially
targeted by GF-4/SM is the piston ring belt area where such deposits can
lead to higher oil consumption and increased emission levels. Temperatures
on pistons and rings, already the hottest lubricated zone in most engines,
have been pushed continually higher by a variety of design trends over
recent years. Additionally GF-4/SM requires better protection against oil
thickening at high temperature from oil oxidation. Oil oxidation can lead
to unacceptable viscosity levels and engine failure.

Furthermore GF-4/SM engine oils will afford improved low temperature
pumpability protection after the oil has been exposed to high temperature
oxidation conditions. Proper pumpability is a critical engine oil
performance requirement to ensure long engine life.

Finally GF-4/SM oils, will afford enhanced fuel economy performance which
can help consumers further optimize their vehicles fuel economy potential.

GTX and Magnatec meet different performance specifications

 

[Bio-T]

quote:

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Originally posted by bulwnkl:
Would you care to comment on using a dino HDEO for the cleaning or rinse phases? I am going to do a cleaning of my Subaru shortly but would really like to use my JD +50 oil that I have on hand.

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I use a HDEO for the clean and rinse. Mine is in a diesel, so if you Subaru will allow you to run a 15W40 no problem. The JD +50 is a good dino, not exotic and been around a long time.