Article re: Future is in lower HTHS

[srfdude]

Article from Afton

Why are low HTHS oils becoming more important?

Future-proofing with lower HTHS Afton works closely with OEMs to understand as to how low the HTHS of a fluid could go through completion of field trial activity and in-house testing. Lower HTHS oil demand is expected to ramp up over the coming years to meet tougher emissions and fuel economy...

www.aftonchemical.com

 

[kschachn]

Well duh. What has the past 40 years been about?

 

[srfdude]

Exactly, but it seems the emphasis for most posters is higher HTHS???

 

[kschachn]

Exactly, but it seems the emphasis for most posters is higher HTHS???

Do you understand the difference?

 

[UG_Passat]

...Note the article references Heavy Duty Diesel specs more than passenger car spec.

 

[userfriendly]

Exactly, but it seems the emphasis for most posters is higher HTHS???

I'm in that group, guilty as charged. "15w40 in everything weather permitting".
I can't speak for the other "thickies", but for me it's convienant and I'm not worried about gaining 2% in fuel efficiency for higher wear and oil consumption. I have a target HTHS of 3.7-4.3, going thicker achieves nothing in my domestic applications. Thinner may comprimise, or be trading engine wear for fuel economy. I've switched from 75w90 to 80w140 in diff's for the same reason.
Everyone has their reasons for doing what they do. It drives some people crazy that I put E-rated tires on half tons.

 

[sk_pete]

psa/stellantis creeped upwards a bit.
perhaps lowest hths/saps is not the best for the engine ..? with 25000km oci certainly not.
(0w30, no cam rollers)

i see asians going <0w20 , but they changed the engines a lot. also adding cam rollers as example.

 

[ZeeOSix]

...Note the article references Heavy Duty Diesel specs more than passenger car spec.

It's all basically the same principles regardless of engine type. The article mentions a few things that have been discussed many times on BITOG:

"Although lowering the HTHS of a formulation does help improve fuel economy performance, it isn’t just a case of changing the base oil and viscosity modifier. Engine durability and protection needs to be considered and maintained as well."

"Boosting antiwear is an important part of the final formulation. Antiwear performance becomes more challenging at lower viscosities because if the fluid is thinned too much, surfaces can come into contact."

As oil viscosity and HTHS decreases, the anti-wear/anti-friction additives in the oil formulation will have to be changed to rely on film strength more and more as the film thickness (MOFT) becomes smaller and smaller for adequate wear mitigation.

 

[SugarMouth]

As oil viscosity and HTHS decreases, the anti-wear/anti-friction additives in the oil formulation will have to be changed to rely on film strength more and more as the film thickness (MOFT) becomes smaller and smaller for adequate wear mitigation.

Curious in your opinion, if there is no noticeable fuel economy improvement of a 0w-20 over a 5w-30, would it be worth using 5w-30 if it meant a HTHS of 3.2 vs 0w-20 of 2.7?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Curious in your opinion, if there is no noticeable fuel economy improvement of a 0w-20 over a 5w-30, would it be worth using 5w-30 if it meant a HTHS of 3.2 vs 0w-20 of 2.7?

IMO, absolutely because the higher HTHS viscosity will give more MOFT between moving parts, and therefore more protection from metal-to-metal contact. I went to 5W-30 on an engine specifying 5W-20 and never looked back. Never saw any fuel mileage difference, but the way I drive it (spirited) one too many near WOT accelerations would erase any fuel mileage benefit from thinner oil, lol.

 

[SugarMouth]

IMO, absolutely because the higher HTHS viscosity will give more MOFT between moving parts, and therefore more protection from metal-to-metal contact. I went to 5W-30 on an engine specifying 5W-20 and never looked back. Never saw any fuel mileage difference, but the way I drive it (spirited) one too many near WOT accelerations would erase any fuel mileage benefit from thinner oil, lol.

I had dumped the factory fill in my Titan at 1k miles and replaced with 5w-30 till recently. I currently have 0w-20 in and notice not even a tenth a MPG improvement so with that experience I thought I'd go back to 5w-30 and wanted your opinion.

Thanks!

 

[ZeeOSix]

I had dumped the factory fill in my Titan at 1k miles and replaced with 5w-30 till recently. I currently have 0w-20 in and notice not even a tenth a MPG improvement so with that experience I thought I'd go back to 5w-30 and wanted your opinion.

Thanks!

xW-20 is probably fine if the vehicle is driven easily. But xW-30 will give more MOFT for those times It's not driven easily. That's why I went from 20 to 30 ... for added MOFT to give insurance/added headroom to help reduce wear.

 

[SugarMouth]

xW-20 is probably fine if the vehicle is driven easily. But xW-30 will give more MOFT for those times It's not driven easily. That's why I went from 20 to 30 ... for added MOFT to give insurance/added headroom to help reduce wear.

My vehicles are not babied so 30 will go in next change.

Thanks!

 

[930.engineering]

Curious in your opinion, if there is no noticeable fuel economy improvement of a 0w-20 over a 5w-30, would it be worth using 5w-30 if it meant a HTHS of 3.2 vs 0w-20 of 2.7?

Consider swapping to a 5W-30 with HTHS between 3.5 and 3.7 (VW 504 00,
BMW LL-04, MB 229.5, 229.51). That Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W-30 you're
running in your Mercedes should be fine.

 

[wpod]

I had dumped the factory fill in my Titan at 1k miles and replaced with 5w-30 till recently. I currently have 0w-20 in and notice not even a tenth a MPG improvement so with that experience I thought I'd go back to 5w-30 and wanted your opinion.

Thanks!

Remember the thought behind CAFE is if all the passenger cars got a .05 mpg increase through out the U.S that would save quite a bit of oil and that will fools the drones into thinking they are saving the earth and with the new Euro standards the drones with their reduction reduction in Co2 will save the Earth.

 

[jughead]

HTHS good marketing tool. But is it as good sounding as "sludge reduction" moly or titanium?

 

[kschachn]

HTHS good marketing tool. But is it as good sounding as "sludge reduction" moly or titanium?

This time is turning out to be a good long run for you.

 

[Oliveoil2]

Just went from 0w-20 to 5w-30 and am down 1-2 mpg on a well used 2012 Honda Fit. It also revs better with 0W-20.

 

[Accent Abuser]

Not in my future, 3.2 minimum HTHS for me but preferably 3.7-4.5.

 

[madeej11]

Remember the thought behind CAFE is if all the passenger cars got a .05 mpg increase through out the U.S that would save quite a bit of oil and that will fools the drones into thinking they are saving the earth and with the new Euro standards the drones with their reduction reduction in Co2 will save the Earth.

Little overboard saving the world part but yes, it certainly would help.