Are we really accomplishing anything?

zam · Apr 2, 2003

I'm wondering what all of the talk on this board is really accomplishing. Before you flame me though realize I do not intend to criticize anyone. I'm an oil freak too and I read all the posts here. My only point is it seems that for all the posting everyone pretty much agrees that if you change your oil and filter ever 3000 you'll get a long life out of your vehicle.

Let me give an example of what I'm talking about. I have a friend who's 88 Crown Vic with the 5.O liter V-8 has 220,000 miles on it. All he's ever done is change the oil every 3000 with a Wix filter. To top it off he has always used the oil that's in his dad's farm bulk tank. Mobil Delvac 1300 straight 30 weight. He's never read this board. He even uses the 30 weight in the Winter!!

The Crown Vic runs like a top on its original motor and tranny. So, is the board really accomplishing anything in terms of making somebody's vehicle last longer? WE do have fun and all with the experiments and debates. I'm all in favor of that. But I wonder if the old mantra of change every 3000 isn't good enough for 98% of the population.

Drew99GT · Apr 2, 2003

I agree with you 100%. Hell, it seems in my familys case that murphy's law overruns all efforts to keep a vehicle in service for a long time with fanatical maintenance practices. My brother's 96 Blazer truck is on it's second tranny, but is currently sitting in front of our house with a crankcase full of coolent (thanks GM for the **** gaskets

) His truck is fanatically maintaned. My mothers Olds 98 is about to lose a tranny at 70K, it's had two tranny flushes already. Engine oil related problems are practically a thousand times less likely then anything else in an engine if you take the 3 month/3000 mile approach. I recently saw first hand in my Dad's 98 Blazer. He has around 120K on it and had to have a few pesky lifters replaced, along with a new intake gasket (just in case

) It's had fram filters and pennzoil 5w-30 every 3,000 without fail, and was as clean as it could be inside when I took a gander at the lifter valley when it was in the shop.

[ April 02, 2003, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Drew99GT ]

Ken2 · Apr 2, 2003

I don't want to waste my time with 3k oil changes. I want to go 5k to 7.5k with good results, and for this I need a superior oil.

Ken

TR3-2001SE · Apr 2, 2003

I think we are! I came to this site thinking that I would replace my normal 3000 mile change to something like 7500 with good oil. I have a car with 250,000 miles and 3000 mile oil changes that uses a lot of oil by my standards. I also have found people who have done 5000 mile changes and at the same milage as mine don't have to add any oil. I am learning I believe that 5000-7500 mile oil changes with a better oil will get me
an old car that will last longer and run better!
I may even have found a way to get my old car to
use less oil. Auto-rx seems like it is worth trying. Lots of good learning on this site!

Drew99GT · Apr 2, 2003

Long dran intervals are nice and all, but just don't work when you drive 3 miles to work and back every day in 15 degree weather.

Pluto5 · Apr 2, 2003

Tend to agree with ZAM--few people are going to pay for even one oil analysis, let alone several to establish a baseline for future changes.

I'm doing 4 mo. changes instead of 3 but still well under 3K miles--I hate cruddy oil.

Ray H · Apr 2, 2003

It's been said that it matters less what you put in the sump than how often you change it. (only bolstered by periodic reports of less than expected performance in some engines with M1) Regardless of the $4.50 - $9.00 "superior" oils, the fact remains that most auto manufacturers still call for 3,000 mile oil changes where severe service is involved to maintain warranty coverage. Couple the above with the fact that short trip cold weather operation and high temperature operation qualify as severe service, I see neither economy nor purpose in frequent pricey oil changes with synthetics while a car is under warranty. I definitely see no purpose in needlessly jeopardizing my rights to a warranty claim by unauthorized extensions of the oil change interval, either. Nor do I see economy or purpose in oil analysis at every oil change just to see how many more miles can be squeezed out of a fill in which the filter should have been changed by anyway and then add a quart to top off. Maybe this strategy is naive according to some, but I've personally never suffered engine meltdown, either oil related or otherwise, on any of the cars I've maintained. Doesn't mean it won't ever happen to me, but I place a great deal of store in past experience. As long as the oil I buy says 10W-30 and SL or higher, it's good enough. (And contrary to the smug oil ellitists, "good enough" is just as it implies - good enough.) Right now my stockpile of the 68 cent Chevron Supreme and ChevronTexaco Havoline are definitely good enough. For those who disagree, there are a number of blenders of "superior" oils who'll quite happily accept your money in exchange for their contribution to feel-good psychology.

joee12 · Apr 2, 2003

NAYSAYER

HEATHEN

UNBELIEVER

BLASHPHEMER

Just Kidding

I personally have an interest in lubrication, cars, boats and general talk. I like to hang out here and dicuss my ideas or questions I have about oil. I do agree that an SL rated oil with any oil filter will last 200,000 miles with 3,000 mile oil changes. I do believe however that some oils are better than others, and some oils work better in some applications than others. -Joe

RichR · Apr 2, 2003

Well I hope I learn enough here about all types of lubrication to keep me out of trouble.
I have learned that Toyotas are hard on oil.
I went 4,400 on the winter change Mobil 1.Thats enough.My Brother in law does two a year regardless of mileage.I found out about the sludge issue and how to get rid of it.I figured out that driving conditions should dictate oil change intervals.But I am not sending off samples to see if I could go longer.Thity some bucks for a M1 change forget it.I'll do the eye test.I have learned which oils are better than others.I am very happy I was told about this site.
Rich

Ray H · Apr 2, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by joee12:
NAYSAYER

HEATHEN

UNBELIEVER

BLASHPHEMER

Shoot, I was feeling very complemented until I came across your disclaimer,

quote:

Just Kidding

Rats!

[ April 02, 2003, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

Patman · Apr 2, 2003

While it is true, 3k oil changes with any SL rated oil of the recommended viscosity will get most people a longer engine life than they need (in other words they'll sell the car or get bored with it long before it's engine wears out)

However some of us here simply do not want to do 3k changes, or we simply enjoy knowing that our engines are getting an oil that gives them the lowest possible wear numbers (or reasonably close on their budget)

And there is a big sense of accomplishment when we get to post a UOA on an oil that shows it to have virtually no wear on the engine.

buster · Apr 2, 2003

quote:

However some of us here simply do not want to do 3k changes, or we simply enjoy knowing that our engines are getting an oil that gives them the lowest possible wear numbers (or reasonably close on their budget)

Ditto that.

turbochem · Apr 2, 2003

quote:

I'm wondering what all of the talk on this board is really accomplishing

Probably nothing. This is fun to us....we are oil nerds.....

RobZ71LM7 · Apr 2, 2003

Another thing to consider is how much analysis's cost. Many people analyze so frequently that they could change their oil once or twice for the cost of the analysis. Blackstone was $18.50 but I believe they now want $20 and it's $30 if you get Terry to comment on it. I myself prefer to just analyze it to check once a year or so. Of course for some people running an analysis is a hobby.

buster · Apr 2, 2003

I'm mainly interested in keeping cars as long as possible. I also drive 50k miles per year so 3k mile changes add up...$$$.

J · Apr 2, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by zam:
I'm wondering what all of the talk on this board is really accomplishing. Before you flame me though realize I do not intend to criticize anyone. I'm an oil freak too and I read all the posts here. My only point is it seems that for all the posting everyone pretty much agrees that if you change your oil and filter ever 3000 you'll get a long life out of your vehicle.

Blasphemer!!!

3,000 mile oil change interval is more of a
waste of time and a hassle for me. I would like
to put a good quality synthetic oil in the sump
and only change every 5,000 miles.

Also, as most people know, oil analysis can
detect issues long before they cause
big problems.

But mostly we're nerds who like to talk about
oil.

Maybe our cars will go 300,000 miles instead
of 250,000 miles, but all the money we spend
on our oil shrines and oil analysis would make
any economic benefit a wash.

thanks

Jae

TheLoneRanger · Apr 2, 2003

In previous years I used whatever oil was on sale at Wal-Mart or Target. 10W-40 of course, because if 10W-30 is good, then 10W-40 should be better!

I also used the orange colored filters, because they were also the best! I never had an engine failure, the vehicles all went over 100K until I tired of them, and the engines were as clean as new inside.

Sometimes it seems like the proverbial dead horse is getting beaten here, but I have gleaned a lot of information on topics I have wondered about for years.

I enjoy reading all the different opinions here. And now I use 10W-30, and choose other filter colors than orange.....

medic · Apr 2, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by zam:
I'm wondering what all of the talk on this board is really accomplishing.

I don't wanna be the devils advocate here, but what about the current price of crude oil? What if engine oil suddenly did the same price increase as gasoline & diesel fuels. Consider what would happen if 50% of the people in this country started running oil for another 2000 miles before they changed it. Yes, the petrolium industry may feel an small impact, the mechanics would have to start paying heating bills for their shops instead of using waste oil for a heat source. Good news - less waste and less oil we need to buy from Saddam.

Imagine if everybody was to stop using Fram filters because of what they learned here. Fram, a leading manufacturer of oil filters, would be forced to start producing quality products or find a new market.

This is one of the few places I have found people who think "outside the box" when it comes to oil. I have always wanted to think this way when it comes to my engine, but have been afraid to and I haven't been able to find anybody to help me until I came here.

If nothing else, "all of the talk on this board" has helped me become a more informed person who no longer feels the need to change my oil every 3000 miles just because "that's the way it's always been done".

Multiple vehicle manufacturers are also moving in a new direction when it comes to oil. Look at the new GM straight 6. GM recommends 15,000 mile oil change intervals. We aren't driving our grandpa's Ford Model-A or our dad's superbeetle. We are driving 21st century vehicles and we are slowly learning that 20th century way of maintaining our vehicle will work, but is a bit of overkill.

How many people would still be using leaded gas if it was available? Just because it always worked before doesn't mean it will now.

[ April 02, 2003, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: medic ]

YZF150 · Apr 2, 2003

There is as much psycho analysis going on here as there is oil analysis.

Eiron · Apr 2, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Drew99GT:
Long dran intervals are nice and all, but just don't work when you drive 3 miles to work and back every day in 15 degree weather.

Why not? The "Aunt Minnie" test shows that short trips over long intervals are A-OK with some oils. Do a search here & you'll find threads like this. (I'll let you know how how my own "Uncle Wiggly" test goes when I'm done with it. I'm in Northern Colorado & I put in 4qts of M1 15W-50 in my '90 2.0L 4cyl on 02.Oct.02. I'm running it for 10k miles, but on my current short-trip schedule it's going to take me a full 2yrs to finish my test. I'll probably change the filter at 5k/1yr, & then run a single UOA when I change the oil at 10k/2yrs. Oh, & I'll probably top up with M1 10W-30, since I've got it on-hand & haven't been convinced to buy more 15W-50.)

quote:

Originally posted by Pluto5:
Tend to agree with ZAM--few people are going to pay for even one oil analysis, let alone several to establish a baseline for future changes.

quote:

Originally posted by RobZ71LM7:
Another thing to consider is how much analysis's cost. Many people analyze so frequently that they could change their oil once or twice for the cost of the analysis. Blackstone was $18.50 but I believe they now want $20 and it's $30 if you get Terry to comment on it. I myself prefer to just analyze it to check once a year or so. Of course for some people running an analysis is a hobby.

I agree that analysis doesn't make sense from a purely cost-effective standpoint. If that's how you view oil changes, then this site is a goldmine! You get to see a huge cross-section of UOAs (& VOAs) & can make informed choices based on that data. The alternative is, "My buddy really likes this Hyper-Slik oil!" At some point, you may even decide you actually want to know what's going on inside your engine, & that data will help someone else.

quote:

Originally posted by Patman:
While it is true, 3k oil changes with any SL rated oil of the recommended viscosity will get most people a longer engine life than they need (in other words they'll sell the car or get bored with it long before it's engine wears out)

However some of us here simply do not want to do 3k changes, or we simply enjoy knowing that our engines are getting an oil that gives them the lowest possible wear numbers (or reasonably close on their budget)

And there is a big sense of accomplishment when we get to post a UOA on an oil that shows it to have virtually no wear on the engine.

Patman summarizes my reason for exchanging info on this site. With only one car for 10yrs, 3k mile changes were not a problem (only 2 or 3 changes a year!) & I never gave it a second thought. But as soon as I got a second car & started commuting 65mi/day, I had to find an alternative, quick! Instead of 2 or 3 changes a year, I was doing 10 to 12 a year!! That's a huge amount of money, oil & time down the drain. Now I'm a fanatic about long drain intervals. I don't plan on running UOAs forever, but for now they can help me establish interval periods that make the best use of my time, money, & resources.

Are we really accomplishing anything?

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