Are Turn Signal Switchback LEDs Legal?

[sunfire]

My stock turn signals are amber halogen bulbs (3157NA) which has two levels of intensity. The lower intensity amber color is for DRL but they stay on at night as well. And the higher intensity while blinking still an amber color are for the turn signals.

However, the way these Switchback LEDs operate is they operate as expected while the turn signal is on. But instead of a lower intensity amber color while turn signal is not in use. These switchback LEDs produce an intense white light. Here is a video in case I've lost you at this point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcQvW64v4e4

The Switchback LEDs obviously behave differently than the stock halogen bulbs. My question is: Are they legal since they behave differently than stock? Please explain why it's you think it's legal or not or any experience you've had with LED turn signal bulbs.

I've searched google and I'm not satisfied with the responses. I know the guy in the video has HID low beams and fog lights but please keep your replies focused on the subject.

 

[exranger06]

Any light visible from the front of the car must be either white or amber. No other colors are allowed. Front turn signals must be amber. Headlights must be some shade of white. Any other lights on the front (marker lights, DRLs, etc) it doesn't matter as long as, like I said before, they're either amber or white. These Switchback lights meet all these criteria, so I don't see any legality problem.

 

[HerrStig]

I have not seen a regulation which requires "parking lights" which is what the white light actually is, to be amber. My cars take the "57" in the standard metal socket, where do I get a pair?

 

[exranger06]

Oh, and 3157NA bulbs are not halogen. They're regular incandescent bulbs. The only halogen bulbs on your car are the headlights and fog lights, if you have them. The rest are all incandescent.

I just remembered though, that there is also a candlepower limit on the lights. You need to make sure that "intense white light" doesn't produce too much light with the headlights on.

 

[Smokescreen]

Also the LED bulb itself must meet criteria of specified lumens at certain given angles...a test at which the stock incandescent sets the benchmark for. Often LED drop ins my be 'bright enough' at one angle but be weak from just a couple of feet in another direction.

 

[carwreck]

I think several sections of the laws would prohibit the lights in the video. see section 12 of dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd12c2a5.htm

" shall not emit any glaring light visible in any direction or to any person..."
" A lamp-type turn signal shall be plainly visible and understandable..."
"In addition to any required or authorized turn signal lamps, any vehicle may be equipped with supplemental rear turn signal lamps that are mounted on, or are an integral portion of, the outside rearview mirrors, so long as the lamps flash simultaneously with the rear turn signal lamps, the light emitted from the lamps is projected only to the rear of the vehicle and is not visible to the driver under normal operating conditions, except for a visual indicator designed to allow monitoring of lamp operation, and the lamps do not project a glaring light"

 

[meep]

the old '57 i had used clear bulbs for clearance and turn signals. granted they may have modified the rules since then...

 

[exranger06]

I also just realized that the white light looks like it's visible from the side of the car. That's technically illegal. Any light visible from the side of the car must be amber (if it's before the forward-most edge of the rear tire). Any light visible from the side of the car behind the forward-most edge of the rear tire must be red. No other colors are allowed.

 

[sunfire]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Any light visible from the front of the car must be either white or amber. No other colors are allowed. Front turn signals must be amber. Headlights must be some shade of white. Any other lights on the front (marker lights, DRLs, etc) it doesn't matter as long as, like I said before, they're either amber or white. These Switchback lights meet all these criteria, so I don't see any legality problem.


Thanks. Are these Switchback LEDs suitable for the rear turn signal bulbs? My car takes the same 3157NA in the rear.

I'm thinking these Switchback LEDs are only suitable in the front. The intense white would most definitely blind people behind me.

 

[Voltmaster]

I believe it has to do with color of light more than if its LED or not.

LED just produce a different looking lights , thats their nature as long as your lights dont look too much diffrent i would go a head and do it.


I am swaping my tail lights with LED so I can power them with tiny little powersupply , my fuse keeps blowing and trouble seems too down into chasis for me to fix.

 

[Hokiefyd]

LEDs are not appropriate for a lamp designed for a filament bulb. LED makers try all sorts of ways to approximate the light distribution of a filament bulb with various arrays of LEDs, but it just doesn't work.

Vehicle lighting equipment isn't a collection of fashion accessories; it's a collection of safety devices. They allow you to see and allow you to be seen. LED lamps are available, but they're regulated as complete lamp assemblies. It's not legal to install an LED "bulb" into a lamp designed for a filament bulb.

 

[KD0AXS]

Originally Posted By: sunfire
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Any light visible from the front of the car must be either white or amber. No other colors are allowed. Front turn signals must be amber. Headlights must be some shade of white. Any other lights on the front (marker lights, DRLs, etc) it doesn't matter as long as, like I said before, they're either amber or white. These Switchback lights meet all these criteria, so I don't see any legality problem.


Thanks. Are these Switchback LEDs suitable for the rear turn signal bulbs? My car takes the same 3157NA in the rear.

I'm thinking these Switchback LEDs are only suitable in the front. The intense white would most definitely blind people behind me.


It's illegal to have ANY white light on the rear of your vehicle, with the exception of a license plate light.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
LEDs are not appropriate for a lamp designed for a filament bulb. LED makers try all sorts of ways to approximate the light distribution of a filament bulb with various arrays of LEDs, but it just doesn't work.

Vehicle lighting equipment isn't a collection of fashion accessories; it's a collection of safety devices. They allow you to see and allow you to be seen. LED lamps are available, but they're regulated as complete lamp assemblies. It's not legal to install an LED "bulb" into a lamp designed for a filament bulb.
Another "glittering generalization" Let's see the DOT regulation which says that? DOT would be all over interstate truckers who change to LED lamps to avoid expensive lamp out tickets if that were so.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Oh, and 3157NA bulbs are not halogen. They're regular incandescent bulbs. The only halogen bulbs on your car are the headlights and fog lights, if you have them. The rest are all incandescent.

I just remembered though, that there is also a candlepower limit on the lights. You need to make sure that "intense white light" doesn't produce too much light with the headlights on.
A "halogen" in nothing more than a more efficient incadescent with a slightly different color temperature.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Another "glittering generalization" Let's see the DOT regulation which says that? DOT would be all over interstate truckers who change to LED lamps to avoid expensive lamp out tickets if that were so.


Interstate trucks are changing out, as you said, to "LED lamps". That is, they replace the entire assembly, designed from the get-go to use LEDs. This is no different than Chrysler moving from incandescent taillamps to LED taillamps on their minivans for 2013. They changed the entire assembly. This is fundamentally different than putting a "retrofit" LED "bulb" into an assembly designed for a filament bulb.

Unless you can demonstrate that a given LED "bulb" in a filament housing passes all of the photometric requirements for that housing, you are not in compliance with 49 CFR 571.108, commonly known as FMVSS 108.

The thread is titled, "Are Turn Signal Switchback LEDs Legal?"

The simple answer is, "No."

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Originally Posted By: sunfire
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Any light visible from the front of the car must be either white or amber. No other colors are allowed. Front turn signals must be amber. Headlights must be some shade of white. Any other lights on the front (marker lights, DRLs, etc) it doesn't matter as long as, like I said before, they're either amber or white. These Switchback lights meet all these criteria, so I don't see any legality problem.


Thanks. Are these Switchback LEDs suitable for the rear turn signal bulbs? My car takes the same 3157NA in the rear.

I'm thinking these Switchback LEDs are only suitable in the front. The intense white would most definitely blind people behind me.


It's illegal to have ANY white light on the rear of your vehicle, with the exception of a license plate light.

You forgot reverse lights. But you're correct: license plates lights and reverse lights must be white. Brake lights must be red. Rear turn signals must be either red or amber. Running taillights must be red. No other colors are allowed.

 

[widman]

Quote:
Any light visible from the front of the car must be either white or amber. No other colors are allowed.


I wish that was true here. People put blue, green, or red lights in the front.

 

[sunfire]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
LEDs are not appropriate for a lamp designed for a filament bulb. LED makers try all sorts of ways to approximate the light distribution of a filament bulb with various arrays of LEDs, but it just doesn't work.


I think this applies to illegal HIDs installed in a low beam housing designed for halogen bulbs. By law the low beams must have a cutoff, a specific light pattern.

This is not the case for LEDs in turn signal and tail light housings. There is no light pattern requirement for signal and tail lights. Here are SMD bulbs that give off 360 deg light pattern which look perfectly fine retrofitted in a filament housing. In the video I doubt you can tell unless you read the comments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moHL7oLtUz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3oQmxM1NMY

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Vehicle lighting equipment isn't a collection of fashion accessories; it's a collection of safety devices. They allow you to see and allow you to be seen. LED lamps are available, but they're regulated as complete lamp assemblies. It's not legal to install an LED "bulb" into a lamp designed for a filament bulb.


I'm not trying to make my car look flashy. LEDs are superior to filament bulbs in every way. They have higher tolerance for vibration, temperature changes, energy efficient, longer bulb life, etc.

The same government that makes the laws for bulbs in our cars will be phasing out incandescent bulbs in our homes in 2014. Incandescent bulbs are relics and therefore antiquated.

 

[Spazdog]

I could never get the LED turnsignals or brake light bulbs to work favorably.
I've already resigned myself to the fact that it will take a weekend of down time in my car to retrofit the taillight housings with a proper LED array.

My car doesn't have amber parking lights. Never has. None of the Mazda6es from that generation do.
stock headlight detail

I replaced the 197 wedge bulb "city lights" in the high beam housing with white TowerII LEDs. Much more visible. You can actually use them as parking lights. Not two little dull dim incandescent 194s.

I also replaced my sidemarkers with amber LEDs. The light transmission is much better than the previous 194s

My cheap Motorola phone goofed up the colors, the sidemarkers are much more yellow and the city lights aren't quite so blue, but you get the idea.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: sunfire
I think this applies to illegal HIDs installed in a low beam housing designed for halogen bulbs. By law the low beams must have a cutoff, a specific light pattern.


It's really much more than that. FMVSS 108 doesn't require a specific cutoff. Headlamp beam patterns MAY have a specific cutoff, but it's not required. You can see for yourself whether your vehicle's lamps are designed with a cutoff by looking at the headlamp assemblies themselves. Your Corolla's headlamps will have "VOR" at the very bottom, in faint lettering. This alerts the person aiming the lamp that there is a cutoff and that the right side of the horizontal cutoff be used to aim the lamp.

Originally Posted By: sunfire
This is not the case for LEDs in turn signal and tail light housings. There is no light pattern requirement for signal and tail lights.


Correct; there is no requirement for a "beam pattern" from signal lamps and tail lamps. But there still ARE various photometric requirements to be met. The way the law works is this: you must certify though photometric observation (measurement) that the lamp assembly (including the "bulb" you are using) conforms to the FMVSS 108 regulations. This isn't a case where the law must prove that you're OUT of conformance; you must prove that you are IN conformance.

Originally Posted By: sunfire
I'm not trying to make my car look flashy. LEDs are superior to filament bulbs in every way. They have higher tolerance for vibration, temperature changes, energy efficient, longer bulb life, etc.


But yet you're trying to change the color of your front running lamps to bright white? Why not use standard amber LEDs?

Originally Posted By: sunfire
The same government that makes the laws for bulbs in our cars will be phasing out incandescent bulbs in our homes in 2014. Incandescent bulbs are relics and therefore antiquated.


Completely different ball of wax; the lamps in our homes are not regulated automotive safety devices. The lamps on the exterior of your car are, and should be treated as such. LED bulbs, by the way, are in no way "disallowed" in automotive use. Many vehicle use LED lamp assemblies, for DRLs, tail lamps, side lamps, etc. The critical point, though, is that the assembly must be designed from the beginning as one accepting an LED "bulb". Automakers go through rigorous testing to demonstrate conformance of their lamps to the regulations; you cannot "eyeball" it on a YouTube video and say it's fine.

Again, you asked a simple question to which there is a simple answer. For much more information on the technical aspects of the regulations, I'd invite you to check out the Automotive Lighting forum at candlepowerforums.net. Real, bonefied, automotive lighting engineers hang out there and it's a wealth of good technical lighting information.

Here's a start: Car lighting upgrade thread. The guy is wanting opinions on upgrading his 2006 Corolla with various LED retrofit "bulbs".

I watched the two videos. I'm sure you'll agree that in the video showing his brake lights, the filament bulb in the right side is significantly brighter than the LED bulb in the left side.

The comments to turn signal video say all you should need to know (besides the legality issue). One person said he switched back to filament bulbs because the LEDs were too difficult to see during the day. Another person said he's put multiple LED "bulbs" in his vehicle because they keep failing.