Are there any UOA of Mobil 1 with good wear level?
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Originally Posted By: fdcg27
There are a number of respected users here who prefer M1.
I do not pretend to their level of knowledge, but I have used it extensively myself, and have seen no ill effects.
The point made by a number of members is that a UOA tells you more about how an oil is holding up in service than it does about engine wear.
There is no substitute for taking an engine apart to determine wear and cleanliness.
I have had but one car engine apart, a VW.
It was clean and had almost no crankshaft wear, and after 110K on this air-cooled wonder, it still had hone marks on the inside of its jugs.
So why had it lost power?
Cracked heads, for which the Type IV is known.
What was used as oil?
10W-40 winter, 30HD summer.
If only I had used PP (not then available), the heads would not have cracked
.
Type IV known for causing cracked cylinder heads on VW air cooled engines? Do you have any evidence to cite for this? This hardly seems likely, or credible.
There are a number of respected users here who prefer M1.
I do not pretend to their level of knowledge, but I have used it extensively myself, and have seen no ill effects.
The point made by a number of members is that a UOA tells you more about how an oil is holding up in service than it does about engine wear.
There is no substitute for taking an engine apart to determine wear and cleanliness.
I have had but one car engine apart, a VW.
It was clean and had almost no crankshaft wear, and after 110K on this air-cooled wonder, it still had hone marks on the inside of its jugs.
So why had it lost power?
Cracked heads, for which the Type IV is known.
What was used as oil?
10W-40 winter, 30HD summer.
If only I had used PP (not then available), the heads would not have cracked
.Type IV known for causing cracked cylinder heads on VW air cooled engines? Do you have any evidence to cite for this? This hardly seems likely, or credible.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=255329&page=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=241724&page=1
I doubt you find anything else in this Engine in terms of UOA that looks this good. So Mobil-1 works fine.So that high iron and M1 stuff is nonsense.Their has never been enough difference to be anything but noise in the machinery or variations based on that OCI's varaiable such as different usuage, weather etc....
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=241724&page=1
I doubt you find anything else in this Engine in terms of UOA that looks this good. So Mobil-1 works fine.So that high iron and M1 stuff is nonsense.Their has never been enough difference to be anything but noise in the machinery or variations based on that OCI's varaiable such as different usuage, weather etc....
No oil cause's heads to crack that is total B.S. that is like saying someone that has body pierceing is more prone to lighting strike! It is total B.S.! Their is no chemical property of GIV fluids that would change the chemical or physical propeties of the materials. G-IV and higher fluids wet better and transfer heat better and can tolerate more heat then anything else in an automotive application. THey tend to lower an engines operating temp......So no way for it to crack heads.
Heads crack due to over heating, flaws in the casting, flaws in the materials,flaws int he design,excedding performance and load designs by the OEM, and improperly installed ie torque wrong and in wrong order etc......
Heads crack due to over heating, flaws in the casting, flaws in the materials,flaws int he design,excedding performance and load designs by the OEM, and improperly installed ie torque wrong and in wrong order etc......
Originally Posted By: Big Jim
Type IV known for causing cracked cylinder heads on VW air cooled engines? Do you have any evidence to cite for this? This hardly seems likely, or credible.
Type IV, not Group IV... Type IV is a VW model
Type IV VWs
And yes, Type IV heads do crack!
robert
Type IV known for causing cracked cylinder heads on VW air cooled engines? Do you have any evidence to cite for this? This hardly seems likely, or credible.
Type IV, not Group IV... Type IV is a VW model
Type IV VWs
And yes, Type IV heads do crack!
robert
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There is not a thing wrong with M1 oils.
I used Mobil1 once. When I drained it, it was black. This stuff is garbage! Don't use it!
Originally Posted By: saaber1
Here are the M1 0W40 iron levels (shown in yellow) for the 2.0 FSI relative to other oils(outliers removed). They are higher than average for the most part.
Data is from many units/drivers etc. and some are single pass UOAs. Small sample size. These all limit the data's usefullness.
What the iron levels mean in terms of chemical or physical wear is not shown by this data, only the iron levels found in UOAs for a specific engine and small sample size. x axis is miles on engine, y axis is ppm Fe/1000 miles.
Once AGAIN saaber1 hits a homer!! The human mind is OK sometimes at picking up subtleties and the graph shows it.
What it means, is similar to what he writes: "Who knows?"
Here are the M1 0W40 iron levels (shown in yellow) for the 2.0 FSI relative to other oils(outliers removed). They are higher than average for the most part.
Data is from many units/drivers etc. and some are single pass UOAs. Small sample size. These all limit the data's usefullness.
What the iron levels mean in terms of chemical or physical wear is not shown by this data, only the iron levels found in UOAs for a specific engine and small sample size. x axis is miles on engine, y axis is ppm Fe/1000 miles.
Once AGAIN saaber1 hits a homer!! The human mind is OK sometimes at picking up subtleties and the graph shows it.
What it means, is similar to what he writes: "Who knows?"
This issue has been beat to death but there is significant evidence that M1 averages higher iron numbers than some other brands. Whether this is significant in terms of wear is open to lots of debate:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...312#Post1321312
If you want low iron numbers in UOA's run Redline, Amsoil or Royal Purple:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...314#Post1321314
Overall averages by brand
Redline 0.8 ppm iron/1000 (6 samples)
Royal Purple 1.1 ppm iron/1000 (11 samples)
Amsoil 1.3 ppm iron/1000 (24 samples various grades)
Castrol 1.6 ppm iron/1000 (15 samples various grades)
Mobil 1 2.1 ppm iron/1000 (40 samples various grades)
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...312#Post1321312
If you want low iron numbers in UOA's run Redline, Amsoil or Royal Purple:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...314#Post1321314
Overall averages by brand
Redline 0.8 ppm iron/1000 (6 samples)
Royal Purple 1.1 ppm iron/1000 (11 samples)
Amsoil 1.3 ppm iron/1000 (24 samples various grades)
Castrol 1.6 ppm iron/1000 (15 samples various grades)
Mobil 1 2.1 ppm iron/1000 (40 samples various grades)
I will be honest, i only ever saw high level ones. Maybe i was attracted by the titles. I have a 20% off voucher and am trying to choose between Mobil 1 5w50 or Castrol Edge 10w60. Mobil has 25% off and some places, the cheapest it is able to be picked up for. Even though Edge 10w60 has no UOA on here, Mobil 1 here is the same as in the U.S. We just dont have the much lower grades. I have recommended MObil 1 5w50 to many people, and yes it is hard to doubt an oil especially if Doug Endorses it. But he does so for both oils. Doesnt really say any oil is bad from what i can recall. We moving into hot summers now, i have 3000k's left on my Delvac MX run AutoRx flush, so i am choosing what oil to use. If MObil 1 is showing too much iron i am inclined to use the Edge. As you can see i am already using a Mobil product, and have many times in the past.
In the TEOST test, Mobil 1 will trounce most if not all other oils. This would also explain why Mobil 1 is used so much in racing and high performance engines.
TEOST = Thermo- oxidation Engine Oil Simulation Test
http://www.astm.org/Standards/D7097.htm
Quote:
Significance and Use
The test method is designed to predict the deposit-forming tendencies of engine oil in the piston ring belt and upper piston crown area. Correlation has been shown between the TEOST MHT procedure and the TU3MH Peugeot engine test in deposit formation. Such deposits formed in the ring-belt area of a reciprocating engine piston can cause problems with engine operation and longevity. It is one of the required test methods in Specification D 4485 to define API Category-Identified engine oils.
TEOST = Thermo- oxidation Engine Oil Simulation Test
http://www.astm.org/Standards/D7097.htm
Quote:
Significance and Use
The test method is designed to predict the deposit-forming tendencies of engine oil in the piston ring belt and upper piston crown area. Correlation has been shown between the TEOST MHT procedure and the TU3MH Peugeot engine test in deposit formation. Such deposits formed in the ring-belt area of a reciprocating engine piston can cause problems with engine operation and longevity. It is one of the required test methods in Specification D 4485 to define API Category-Identified engine oils.
Originally Posted By: buster
In the TEOST test, Mobil 1 will trounce most if not all other oils. This would also explain why Mobil 1 is used so much in racing and high performance engines.
It would be very interesting to see how well Redline would perform in the TEOST test as well as HTO-06. My guess is that it would "trounce" the competition.
In the TEOST test, Mobil 1 will trounce most if not all other oils. This would also explain why Mobil 1 is used so much in racing and high performance engines.
It would be very interesting to see how well Redline would perform in the TEOST test as well as HTO-06. My guess is that it would "trounce" the competition.
I am listening to the "dont pay too much attention to oil test" call but why are these levels so unique to Mobil 1 ? Its as if they are using it as an additive (Iron). Have Mobil come out to try and explain these things ? Otherwise they will always be open to criticism. Look Pennzoil are still trying to shake the gunky engine rumour, I'd rather have that one that a high wear Iron rumour. I say stop it in its tracks Mobil !
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: vxcalais
I am listening to the "dont pay too much attention to oil test" call but why are these levels so unique to Mobil 1 ? Its as if they are using it as an additive (Iron). Have Mobil come out to try and explain these things ? Otherwise they will always be open to criticism. Look Pennzoil are still trying to shake the gunky engine rumour, I'd rather have that one that a high wear Iron rumour. I say stop it in its tracks Mobil !
Chemical chelation.....
I am listening to the "dont pay too much attention to oil test" call but why are these levels so unique to Mobil 1 ? Its as if they are using it as an additive (Iron). Have Mobil come out to try and explain these things ? Otherwise they will always be open to criticism. Look Pennzoil are still trying to shake the gunky engine rumour, I'd rather have that one that a high wear Iron rumour. I say stop it in its tracks Mobil !
Chemical chelation.....
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: vxcalais
I am listening to the "dont pay too much attention to oil test" call but why are these levels so unique to Mobil 1 ? Its as if they are using it as an additive (Iron). Have Mobil come out to try and explain these things ? Otherwise they will always be open to criticism. Look Pennzoil are still trying to shake the gunky engine rumour, I'd rather have that one that a high wear Iron rumour. I say stop it in its tracks Mobil !
Chemical chelation.....
Is oxidation (rusting) considered chemical chelation like bleach on iron?
Originally Posted By: vxcalais
I am listening to the "dont pay too much attention to oil test" call but why are these levels so unique to Mobil 1 ? Its as if they are using it as an additive (Iron). Have Mobil come out to try and explain these things ? Otherwise they will always be open to criticism. Look Pennzoil are still trying to shake the gunky engine rumour, I'd rather have that one that a high wear Iron rumour. I say stop it in its tracks Mobil !
Chemical chelation.....
Is oxidation (rusting) considered chemical chelation like bleach on iron?
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: cjhepburn
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: vxcalais
I am listening to the "dont pay too much attention to oil test" call but why are these levels so unique to Mobil 1 ? Its as if they are using it as an additive (Iron). Have Mobil come out to try and explain these things ? Otherwise they will always be open to criticism. Look Pennzoil are still trying to shake the gunky engine rumour, I'd rather have that one that a high wear Iron rumour. I say stop it in its tracks Mobil !
Chemical chelation.....
Is oxidation (rusting) considered chemical chelation like bleach on iron?
No idea.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: vxcalais
I am listening to the "dont pay too much attention to oil test" call but why are these levels so unique to Mobil 1 ? Its as if they are using it as an additive (Iron). Have Mobil come out to try and explain these things ? Otherwise they will always be open to criticism. Look Pennzoil are still trying to shake the gunky engine rumour, I'd rather have that one that a high wear Iron rumour. I say stop it in its tracks Mobil !
Chemical chelation.....
Is oxidation (rusting) considered chemical chelation like bleach on iron?
No idea.
SO no explanation. So to round this up on this thread, even if UOA are of no consequence when it comes to engine wear, Mobil 1 have a tendency to throw higher Iron levels.
X-Files Case Closed.
X-Files Case Closed.
M1 shows higher Iron levels on UOA's... SOMETIMES... (Usually when someone has hopscotched around with oils and then settled on M1. After a few runs of M1 the numbers fall back into normal lines like any other oil FME)
Redline and RLI BioSyn shows higher TAN levels... MOST OF THE TIME...
Neither oil of which show any real world increase in premature engine failures or excess wear that are documented.
And if that isn't enough... M1 has 58% market share compared to the rest of the oil manufacturers and is the factory fill for many car manufacturers, and is API licensed.
I highly doubt they did all that destroying engines or through excess Iron wear in your engine.
IMO the higher Iron readings on the UOA's are a chemical reaction and not that of Iron particles from wear.
I think the ones that "Attack" M1 are doing so because like any other large company, they must be evil and must be brought down because they are only out for profits... They do this by cheapening out their product to their unsuspecting customers while still charging a premium price, all while running to the bank laughing and plotting their next attack on poor consumers.
I'm not saying XOM didn't modify their formula over the years both for performance gains and increased profitability, but given what I have seen in engines using M1 I doubt they would sacrifice their performance for profitability.
If you don't believe me start a thread that asks who uses M1, for how long and how many miles, and if they have pictures of the engine internals.
I think you naysayers will be pleasantly surprised!
Redline and RLI BioSyn shows higher TAN levels... MOST OF THE TIME...
Neither oil of which show any real world increase in premature engine failures or excess wear that are documented.
And if that isn't enough... M1 has 58% market share compared to the rest of the oil manufacturers and is the factory fill for many car manufacturers, and is API licensed.
I highly doubt they did all that destroying engines or through excess Iron wear in your engine.
IMO the higher Iron readings on the UOA's are a chemical reaction and not that of Iron particles from wear.
I think the ones that "Attack" M1 are doing so because like any other large company, they must be evil and must be brought down because they are only out for profits... They do this by cheapening out their product to their unsuspecting customers while still charging a premium price, all while running to the bank laughing and plotting their next attack on poor consumers.
I'm not saying XOM didn't modify their formula over the years both for performance gains and increased profitability, but given what I have seen in engines using M1 I doubt they would sacrifice their performance for profitability.
If you don't believe me start a thread that asks who uses M1, for how long and how many miles, and if they have pictures of the engine internals.
I think you naysayers will be pleasantly surprised!
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