Are Tanks and Armored Vehicles Obsolete

[Owen Lucas]

What makes you think it won't gradually got bigger? If anything it is not the blast but the radiation afterward that people are worried about. Once the cat is out of the bag it would escalate back and forth until we might as well start with the big ones on each other.

Which is why we would rather use the MOAB in Afghan back then instead of a non strategic mini nuke.

I think with Hiroshima the radiation subsided within a year and now its on par with background radiation. How this measures up with modern nukes I have no idea, maybe that's factored into low yield bombs? What I'm saying is if Russia fly's a nuke in, not via ICBM, but cruise missile or otherwise, and this doesn't harm NATO because of it's low yield, Putin can 1. take out Kyiv and 2. not have NATO retaliate though he literally went nuclear. Putin obviously doesn't care about sanctions so what's to stop him other than the manpads that are proving to be somewhat effective. You basically have to be crazy to use nuclear but we can expect that from Putin. He can't go large scale because that would damage agricultural production of Ukraine which is massive and the large scale fallout over Europe would might trigger article 5?

 

[dbias]

Putin needs to declare that Ukraine has been cleared of drug addicts and Nazis', declare victory and withdraw.

 

[PimTac]

My sense is that Russia is using military tactics closer to WW2 style than todays modern warfare. You have intelligence and recon checking things ahead of time. Electronic warfare has a huge role. Prime targets are first. Power, communications etc.


On the carriers, they are still a power to be reckoned with but I do sense a shift towards faster and more nimble ships in the Navy. The cruise missile for example has changed a lot of how we can attack. Firing from a distance always has its advantages. These missiles are adaptable as well.

 

[tyman]

US have been in 20 years of constant war, of course our military would be one of the most experienced in the world (the other being the enemy we were fighting), instead of Russian.

To be fair, Russians have been fighting Chechnyans for years as well as their fighting in Georgia, Crimea, Ukraine, and the latest being Syria. So they do have quite a bit of experience especially fighting insurgencies and guerilla warfare. They’re just…awful. Mainly because of conscripts and a lot of bad or outdated equipment.

 

[Owen Lucas]

My sense is that Russia is using military tactics closer to WW2 style than todays modern warfare. You have intelligence and recon checking things ahead of time. Electronic warfare has a huge role. Prime targets are first. Power, communications etc.


On the carriers, they are still a power to be reckoned with but I do sense a shift towards faster and more nimble ships in the Navy. The cruise missile for example has changed a lot of how we can attack. Firing from a distance always has its advantages. These missiles are adaptable as well.

I think laser is the ultimate solution. A swarm of hypersonic missiles is Chinas goal with their program, keep the carriers far enough from the coast to be effective. Lasers have come a long way and one can envision an airborne or ship based system that will knock out multiple targets very quickly.

 

[KJSmith]

The question should be is War obsolete?
The only winners are the Defense contractors.

 

[IndyFan]

One more thing about carriers. Not only do their defenses and screening ships and supbs present many defensive layers, they can move, and they move fast. They can move at VERY high speed to a place anywhere in thousands of square miles in a matter of hours. They are not as easy to locate as many think. The oceans are huge, and the one between us and China is massive in a way that few can comprehend.

I am sure those who have served on carriers know a little about how easily and quickly they can move. Satellites might be able occasionally to spot them but during the time it takes to get a weapon system into range for an attack, that carrier can be loooong gone.

 

[ZeeOSix]

For as smart as some claim Putin to be, and he might be, he doesn't seem very wise at this moment.

Putin is a fool if he thinks he's going to succeded in his delusional goals. Not when the majority of the world is and will be against Russia, and shun them for decades to come, even if he pulled out of Ukraine right now. Not to mension the turmoil he's caused for the people living in Russia - he's living dangerously.

He's not "smart" by any means, and anyone thinking he is must be in love with him, or just as delusional. Radical dictators who go rogue and cause world and internal turmoil eventually get over thrown or assasinated. Hopefully that happens before he totally loses his mind to the point of giving the command to launch nukes when he ultimately realizes that he will never "win". That's what a mad-man might attempt.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

Putin is a fool if he thinks he's going to succeded in his delusional goals. Not when the majority of the world is and will be against Russia, and shun them for decades to come, even if he pulled out of Ukraine right now. Not to mension the turmoil he's caused for the people living in Russia - he's living dangerously.

He's not "smart" by any means, and anyone thinking he is must be in love with him, or just as delusional. Radical dictators who go rogue and cause world and internal turmoil eventually get over thrown or assasinated. Hopefully that happens before he totally loses his mind to the point of giving the command to launch nukes when he ultimately realizes that he will never "win". That's what a mad-man might attempt.

Many people think Putin is not the mastermind; rather, that he is the mark.

Some have predicted the "war" will be over in about three months.

I've been loosely following.. the loss of life is a shame, but, wow, Ukraine is showing us what tenacious fighters are!

I think everyone is on the side of Ukraine, Poland does not want a border with Russia again, many things seem "off" in the whole situation.

 

[PandaBear]

The question should be is War obsolete?
The only winners are the Defense contractors.

War is a big business, and the biggest profit is in the finance sector.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

War is a big business, and the biggest profit is in the finance sector.

It also could be a massive disingenuous distraction, based on real and tragic events.

Ever see the film Wag The Dog? I think 1998 or so.

 

[Wolf359]

For as smart as some claim Putin to be, and he might be, he doesn't seem very wise at this moment.

It's probably something to do with being surrounded by yes men that tell him his military can do the job but then it turns out they can't. It's clear that having one skill doesn't necessarily translate into another in that his skill was with the KGB and how to maintain power. But that doesn't mean he's good at using the military and how just because he got away with it on a smaller scale he could get away with it on a larger scale. Total miscalculation on his part.

Marshall Plan is exactly what Putin do not wants to happen in Ukraine, keep bombing it and make any development impractical is the goal, IMO.

I think there was some claim that there was about 120 billion in damage to Ukraine, but Russia has 300 billion frozen in sanctions, they could try to seize some of that to pay for reconstruction. Happened with Iran although they did get some of it back.

 

[PandaBear]

I think laser is the ultimate solution. A swarm of hypersonic missiles is Chinas goal with their program, keep the carriers far enough from the coast to be effective. Lasers have come a long way and one can envision an airborne or ship based system that will knock out multiple targets very quickly.

When you think we have a problem charging EVs..... but not a high-power laser that can shoot far enough and powerful enough to shoot down a missile or a plane.

 

[PandaBear]

It also could be a massive disingenuous distraction, based on real and tragic events.

Ever see the film Wag The Dog? I think 1998 or so.

People on the internet have been predicting that we need a war to boost the USD (exchange rate, interest rate is the only way to judge a currency now that gold is no longer meaningful) as it is a safe haven. Some predicted we will fight China in the South China Sea, I predicted in Dec we would send in forces to Ukraine to help them fend off the separatists. I wasn't expecting Putin to do the needful so we didn't have to be involved in a real war with a real war expense.

If you look at the exchange rate at the moment, the biggest winner other than USD is RMB, they actually shot up even more than USD for some reason (maybe Russian need to stock up RMB to smuggle stuff, since it is not an officially open to exchange currency?), Euro was crashing pretty bad along with Rubles obviously.

 

[Owen Lucas]

When you think we have a problem charging EVs..... but not a high-power laser that can shoot far enough and powerful enough to shoot down a missile or a plane.

Yeah, that is one of the challenges, works on a small scale on smaller boats but to defend an aircraft carrier is another thing. I'm sure we'll get there though.

People on the internet have been predicting that we need a war to boost the USD (exchange rate, interest rate is the only way to judge a currency now that gold is no longer meaningful) as it is a safe haven. Some predicted we will fight China in the South China Sea, I predicted in Dec we would send in forces to Ukraine to help them fend off the separatists. I wasn't expecting Putin to do the needful so we didn't have to be involved in a real war with a real war expense.

If you look at the exchange rate at the moment, the biggest winner other than USD is RMB, they actually shot up even more than USD for some reason (maybe Russian need to stock up RMB to smuggle stuff, since it is not an officially open to exchange currency?), Euro was crashing pretty bad along with Rubles obviously.

I see what you mean, so Ukraine is a predictable crisis with the positive affect of boosting the dollar. I guess you can jack up interest rates with the distraction too. There has got to be more to the war than most people will ever know.

 

[PandaBear]

I think there was some claim that there was about 120 billion in damage to Ukraine, but Russia has 300 billion frozen in sanctions, they could try to seize some of that to pay for reconstruction. Happened with Iran although they did get some of it back.

You won't know the real damage and cost until it is over. Financial market may say you have this and that loss but a lot of the real cost is not really something you can calculate in a volatile day to day market.

Say a steel company's stock price dropped 98% in one day, you can say the owner loss 98% of his asset. However if the 98% loss is in the foreign market but the assets is in another country, blockade and cannot wire money to pay a debt on time, and credit rating company rate it default, the owner of the stocks in another country may lose money (us small international investors), but the owner inside the blockaded nation with the company asset inside the nation will not lose most of it at all. That owner may still be in good relationship with the government and still get paid doing the work, expanding, etc.

Look at Toshiba, Mitsubishi, ThyssenKrupp, etc. They did alright after being bombed the heck out of after losing in WW2, they are still big today despite some stock market or other international blockade and sanctions.

 

[PandaBear]

I see what you mean, so Ukraine is a predictable crisis with the positive affect of boosting the dollar. I guess you can jack up interest rates with the distraction too. There has got to be more to the war than most people will ever know.

I wouldn't say "predictable". They were in a mess for a long time before the current mess. I don't see them being any different than Syria, Libya, etc. The only thing I can see for sure is when interest rate is too low and debt is too high, somewhere on earth there'll be a war.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Some delusional member of the Russian Parliament is now demanding that the USA give Alaska back, amoing other things, lol. Google it.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

Some delusional member of the Russian Parliament is now demanding that the USA give Alaska back, amoing other things, lol. Google it.

They followed that up with a threat about $300 per barrel of oil.

Not understanding why Krazy Ivan and Company is doing this to itself..

Mitsubishi

My Grandfather when he was still alive, WW2 Army Combat Vet. Refused to buy anything Mitsubishi for their manufacture of the Zero.

 

[bbhero]

Putin is a fool if he thinks he's going to succeded in his delusional goals. Not when the majority of the world is and will be against Russia, and shun them for decades to come, even if he pulled out of Ukraine right now. Not to mension the turmoil he's caused for the people living in Russia - he's living dangerously.

He's not "smart" by any means, and anyone thinking he is must be in love with him, or just as delusional. Radical dictators who go rogue and cause world and internal turmoil eventually get over thrown or assasinated. Hopefully that happens before he totally loses his mind to the point of giving the command to launch nukes when he ultimately realizes that he will never "win". That's what a mad-man might attempt.

Good, bad or indifferent....

Vlad has gotten tired of NATO and US intrusion into his world of influence.

Candidly... It's understandable to a degree.

Think about a Warsaw Pact nation trying to be brought to bear right on the southern US border...

Would the US take kindly to that ?

Ahh... No.

We almost start WWW III over Cuba having nuclear weapons on it. Which thank goodness JFK handled that circumstance about has well as could possibly have been done.

We also attempted taking out Cuba's leader a number of times.

This current circumstance has been brought about by very short sighted and thoughtless regard for Russian concerns in their region. Several US presidents have failed to recognize the potential for danger of closing in on a country like Russia.

Bringing forner Warsaw Pact nation's into NATO was a big, big mistake. Attempting to bring Ukraine into NATO is a massive miscalculation which is potentially and likely exceptionally dangerous and antagonist in nature.

The disarmament of the Ukraine sponsored by US and others was not very well thought out for long term negative consequences. Yes I know Russia signed that agreement as well... Though it made them quite pleased to have Ukraine disarmed at that time. Anyone think this would be happening if that agreement had never happened ?? Ahhh... No. Quite unlikely it would have. Our lack of truly understanding the difficulties in the past between people in those areas and what that could lead to is now on full display. The US and NATO opened the door for all of this to take place.

A cornered animal is the most dangerous one.

And we have been foolishly doing that for the past 25+ years.