Are synthetic worth the money?

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I switched back to Amsoil because I was told that synthetic are better on engine seals.Engine seals with dino oil will dry out I was told.Also I am to understand that dino oil will leave more depoits and sludge inside your engine.My question is can synthetic be worth the extra money?I have 91,000 miles on my 2000 Powerstroke and I with Amsoil change the filter every 10,000 miles and both filter and oil at every 20,000 miles.Should I go back to changiung both every 5,000 miles?At every 5,000 miles I know nothing but fresh oil will be in the truck
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.Thanks Joe
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I wouldnt run it in the diesel, Synthetics do little for fuel dilution, I would change it 3 times as often with dino before using syn, You will be money ahead. These engines last 300-400 thousand miles with regular oil. By that time the truck is falling apart anyways.
 
Dually, synthetics show about the same wear as petro oils. Syn oils are cleaner, but the heavy duty oils are hard to beat. Engine deposits are from letting the oil go too far between changes. Synthetics are great for freezing temperatures. Synthetic in differentials is almost a must imo.
 
Which Amsoil are you running? I wouldn't have an issue with the the HDD 5w-30 or 15W-40 doing your OCI's...

If you ask me worth the money on the 15W-40, I would say NO doubt about it. The 5W-30 is too expensive from my point of view.

The "feeling" of fresh oil can be a good feeling, but UOA's often don't back that feeling up.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Steve S:
Dually, synthetics show about the same wear as petro oils. Syn oils are cleaner, but the heavy duty oils are hard to beat. Engine deposits are from letting the oil go too far between changes. Synthetics are great for freezing temperatures. Synthetic in differentials is almost a must imo.

"Synthetics show about the same wear as petro oils" Holy Cow! This is the furthest statement from the truth. Synthetic lubricants are much more heat stable then petroleum, it reduces engine temperatures by reducing friction. You reduce friction, you reduce wear, its that simple. If you didn't already know or believe that, then why do you think it is a must in differentials.... could it be lower operating temps? or reduced friction?
 
TDI look at the uoas, show me the difference. The difference in differentials is they go a long distance between oil changes. motor oils have a good chance of being contaminated. I am not knocking syn oils . They are not always the best choice.
 
A friend of mine has 379,000 miles on his F250, It has been worked hard all its life and the body really shows. He has ran dino juice since new, however the engine runs like new, He changes the oil twice a year with the cheapest stuff he can get, Mills fleet Farm 5 gal for $20.00, Even if he had ran synthetic, that wouldnt help the body that is rusted out and the interior that is shot. Trucks are not made to last forever, I just dont understand. There is no proof that synthetic will make an engine last longer at proper drains. The additive pack is what protects and engine the most not the Base oil.
 
If you drive in extreme conditions then synthetic is the only way to go but only if you do long hauls under extremely hot or sub zero cold temps, otherwise today's dino oils like Delo 400 and Delvac Super do a superlative job. UOA would confirm my theory and I have a OM 616 diesel engine with over 500,000 miles and no overhaul yet.
 
Synthetic gear oils likely don't shear as easily in the wide spread 75w-140 that eg. Ford recommends. So they last longer than dino, while providing the fuel economy of a lighter weight oil.

I used to think that synthetic engine oils always would produce better wear numbers, despite their thinner (often times) viscosity. This board seems to refute that premise after looking at a lot of UOAs. With big sump capacities, the price question is pretty much in your face.

Therefore I am left with the following benefits to synthetics:

- able to handle wide multigrade ratings without breaking down as easily as dino equivalents
- better long term engine cleanliness depending on OCI due to less volatility and fewer residues
- cold starting (no comparison here really)

Jury still out on:

- potential for better fuel economy/power via lower viscosity - is this really safe for long term wear? No doubt it would take 150K miles for gasoline or 250K diesel to be relevant.
- handling of fuel/soot loading
- new Group II base oils pretty good compared to just a few years ago (a lot of the varnish/sludge producing junk refined out now).

Another question: would GM need to require Mobil 1 5w-30 in Vettes without CAFE consideration? Would 15w-40 dino work?
 
GM started m1 in the Corvette line After they lost some motors in their Lexington Ky.plant. freezing weather, the petro wouldn't pump which allowed removal of the oil cooler due to the ability of the petro oils of the time not pumping. I'm not knocking syn oils as I have used more than my share. in most applications they are not worth it and show little if any advantages.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Steve S:
GM started m1 in the Corvette line After they lost some motors in their Lexington Ky.plant. freezing weather, the petro wouldn't pump ...

Same basic engine in other applications in colder climates didn't get the M1. It was primarily done so they could cheap out by not installing an oil cooler.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Steve S:
GM started m1 in the Corvette line After they lost some motors in their Lexington Ky.plant.

You mean Bowling Green?

[ July 31, 2004, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by TDI's RULE:
QUOTE]"Synthetics show about the same wear as petro oils" Holy Cow! This is the furthest statement from the truth. -*-*-If you didn't already know or believe that, then why do you think it is a must in differentials.... could it be lower operating temps? or reduced friction?

Well I have used Dinos in the Diff for over 240K before and at 60K or thereabouts have little wear to none... it is not a must as it is not a must to use in the motor...

I know of Dinos and even with Lube Contorl if everything they say is true, then they could go the distance too.... no, not all dinos are created equal just as not all SYNS are the same...

In answers to the mans question:Should I go back to changiung both every 5,000 miles?At every 5,000 miles I know nothing but fresh oil will be in the truck...

Well, its up to you.
Why not do a cost on the both and see on paper. Sounds like you have experience. Add everything up and see which one has the lowest cost per mile.
If Dino is 7/10 of a cent and Syn is 5 cents well that's a no brainer. Rest assured, diesels last longer than gasoline and unless you plan on keeping this 1/2 million miles or more on one motor, then use what is cheaper.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Steve S:
TDI look at the uoas, show me the difference.

UOA don't always show accurate wear when comparing synthetics to petroleum. Could be because a lot of the wear metals don't show up in suspension in petroleum oil because they are caught up in the sludge/grime/whatever in the pores of the iron block or get attached to larger particles and get taken to the filter or sink to the bottom of the oil pan.

Anyway. Here are some quotes from a well know poster to bitog from an email he sent me regarding a question I asked about the benefits he saw to using Delvac 1 in his fleet. He shall remain nameless since this was from email and not posted in a forum. Of course he is free to jump in and take credit if he so wishes.

"
The Detroit Diesel valve/injector actuation gear is programmed for
adjustment at 200kkms. We no longer do it at all since using Delvac 1 as our
monitoring showed that these adjustments were no longer required.

As well, we have monitored the overall valve train wear and cam lobes and
this is now at almost zero. We are about to tear down and measure an engine
that has done 1m kms on Delvac 1 with only one valve train adjustment at
300kkms"


I hope this has been of some help to some of you reading this thread.
 
Some people can pay for syn with a increase in mileage. If you can why not run it? I think a bypass filter is required at 20K intervals it will do more for you engine than syn oil. The real bonus is the 5w pumping ability you get with most syns. Some dino 15w-40s won't pour below -15F. Don't know if its a problem where you live but it's on the ragged edge around here.
 
With a typical gallon of 15w40 running around $6.50 and a best price on motocraft filter of $9.50 you would pay about $142 + tax on the full $142 for dino to complete 20,000 miles.

The price would be 132.50 + (tax on $98.70) for Amsoil AME 15w40 and two of Amsoils filters including shipping and $20 preferred membership year dues. If you purchase your oil and filters just before your membership is over you can cut the total down to $122.50.

So on a purely cost per mile basis the Amsoil was cheaper.

This doesn't include the extra labor and time involved in doing the additional oil changes.

Also doesn't include the fuel savings of 2%+ using the synthetic.


On a side note: I just changed over the wifes Excursion powerstroke to Series 3000 5w30 from the AME and the truck likes it a lot. Runs quieter than on the 15w40 dino or AME. I think the injectors behave better on it. Other diesels than the powerstroke may not notice.
 
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