Anyone Know of Problems With Cat/Emissions Test Failures and High Phosphorus Oils?
- Thread starter pscholte
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none whatso ever..i read a study awhile back that zinc and phos. had to be 10,000 ppm to hurt the cat...it wasn't on here
I havn't. From my limited reading on the topic, it's a shame that ZDDP had to be replaced. It worked extremely well and was cheap. Now, the replacement adds are driving up the cost of oils along with the more costly basestocks, to meet the more stringent specs.
I believe Mobil and Amsoil both fought hard against the ZDDP/CAT issue saying how by keeping the Noak V. low, you really wouldn't have a problem. For oil burners regardless, I don't know what would happen.
I believe Mobil and Amsoil both fought hard against the ZDDP/CAT issue saying how by keeping the Noak V. low, you really wouldn't have a problem. For oil burners regardless, I don't know what would happen.
Nicely said.
Horse feathers and my great aunt Fanny. The run-up in motor oil prices is directly related to the run-up in crude, not the piddly additional cost of moly over ZDDP. It's not just motor oil that's rising, either. All facets of dino-hydrocarbon equation (fuel, lubes, plastics, natural gas, food, transportation and manufacturing) are setting up to launch into the stratosphere. Get ready for stag-flation again, kids. I'm not going political here, but anyone with half a brain and an internet connection should already see the handwriting on the wall.
+1 to what Ray just said.
Time to lube my bicycle chain and start bking to work again.
Time to lube my bicycle chain and start bking to work again.
I'm generally with Ray H on the cost issue.
Call up a few shops that replace cats for the original topic question. But I doubt they'll know whether the cats failed from high phosphorus oils or some other mechanism. Only OEMs replacing them under warranty would do a comprehensive failure analysis.
[ April 22, 2006, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
Call up a few shops that replace cats for the original topic question. But I doubt they'll know whether the cats failed from high phosphorus oils or some other mechanism. Only OEMs replacing them under warranty would do a comprehensive failure analysis.
[ April 22, 2006, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
What would be cool is to cut up some dead cats, rip the guts out and do a SEM Auger or other surface analysis...and see what kind of goodies we find on the Pt/Pd.....
Oh just great Pablo.........now we're getting into killing cats!!
Oh well maybe beter than cute little bunny's.
Oh well maybe beter than cute little bunny's.
I really should have written out catalytic converters.....sorry. For once I actually wasn't trying to make a joke.
Z,
My friend you have struck gold...so to speak. The whole point of my question was to find out if that wonderful anti-wear ingredient, phosphorus, was REALLY that hard on catalysts or if this was a "crusade" of sorts. From the articles you provided, it looks like Phosphorus, calcium and zinc can all do nasty things to a cat...I did not tarry in the wisdom long enough to see if there is a threshold, which, of course, there must be.
My friend you have struck gold...so to speak. The whole point of my question was to find out if that wonderful anti-wear ingredient, phosphorus, was REALLY that hard on catalysts or if this was a "crusade" of sorts. From the articles you provided, it looks like Phosphorus, calcium and zinc can all do nasty things to a cat...I did not tarry in the wisdom long enough to see if there is a threshold, which, of course, there must be.
What I'm wondering is:
What has gotten into pscholte, that would cause him to stray so far away from the black forest, to talk about diesel oils?
What has gotten into pscholte, that would cause him to stray so far away from the black forest, to talk about diesel oils?
Good papers.
The first one is interesting, especially the part about P alone not being so bad and P in combo with Ca. The Zn and P and combo seems bad, but who every says much about Ca?
Still no real value in oil given but what I find interesting is the Ca connection and the dependence on the type of ZDDP used for volatility of P.
The first one is interesting, especially the part about P alone not being so bad and P in combo with Ca. The Zn and P and combo seems bad, but who every says much about Ca?
Still no real value in oil given but what I find interesting is the Ca connection and the dependence on the type of ZDDP used for volatility of P.
A cougar ate a cat in Leavenworth this week, then was chased up a tree and shot.
Wasn't he kind of a cannibal???
Wasn't he kind of a cannibal???
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Sounds like the EPA is preemptively taking action for the next evolution in long term ownership of cars. Seeing that we aren't going to remove them from service for much longer times then in years past.
This was my take on this from the get go. It's a "reaching" mandate. One to aid in maintaining the system's integrity for a very long time. I wonder if they've done a const/benefit analysis on the difference between the cat failures seen in later years of service vs. the costs of reformulating oils and the cost to ALL consumers to prolong this aging process in 100k+ units (on average)??
This was my take on this from the get go. It's a "reaching" mandate. One to aid in maintaining the system's integrity for a very long time. I wonder if they've done a const/benefit analysis on the difference between the cat failures seen in later years of service vs. the costs of reformulating oils and the cost to ALL consumers to prolong this aging process in 100k+ units (on average)??
Why was the cougar shot? That's ridiculous.
Scared people, and probably greatly annoyed the owner of the cat. The cougar is alleged to have previously bitten a man on the leg.
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