anyone have a UOA that the lab said the oil was actually due for a change?

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every UOA i see lately is "looking good run it for more"
has anyone posted a UOA for when the oil was actually done for and blackstone said something along the lines of "its due for a change because xxx is low or xxx is too high"
i want to see at which KM point that happens for a speicifc application

thx
 
Here is one of mine, although not from Blackstone:

BTW, this isn't exactly KM dependent - time and operating conditions play a bigger role in this than kilometers/miles.
 
Here is one of mine, although not from Blackstone:

TBN 3.59 is low?
 
That's up for debate, but more importantly TAN has exceeded TBN.

With low sulphur fuel I'm not sure how much credence to give to that indicator today. Chevron has some examples where TBN is all but non-existent and the TAN looks pretty high but Oxidation, Nitration and Iron numbers remain in check at mileages double the crossover point.
 
Because BS never sees ragged out/very long OCI on crappy oil UOAs. Think about who uses BS...nerds that want to see oil data that almost always change their oil earlier than necessary and are hyper-aware of maintaining their cars. No surprise to me the UOAs almost always say "try another 1000 miles".
 
Because BS never sees ragged out/very long OCI on crappy oil UOAs. Think about who uses BS...nerds that want to see oil data that almost always change their oil earlier than necessary and are hyper-aware of maintaining their cars. No surprise to me the UOAs almost always say "try another 1000 miles".
Great point.

People who run on the same oil forever because they don't have money for an oil change certainly don't have money for a UOA either.
 
Great point.

People who run on the same oil forever because they don't have money for an oil change certainly don't have money for a UOA either.
Correct. Or even know what a UOA is. BITOG is a v. skewed sample population of hyper-sensitive nerds that over-maintain their cars. You know BS laughs all the way to the bank...."Hey Harry, another UOA for a super oil ran for 3.45 (repeating) thousand miles...evil laugh".
 
I sent a sample to Blackstone, & an identical sample to AGAT labs.

Blackstone said it was good, & extend my OCI.

AGAT flagged it for Lower Reportable levels of Boron, & 3.0% Fuel dilution, where Blackstone said there was no fuel dilution.

I believe AGAT flags it if the additive depleteion drops below 50% of virgin oil specs.

sample was sent at 5350 kilometers.
 

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I sent a sample to Blackstone, & an identical sample to AGAT labs.

Blackstone said it was good, & extend my OCI.

AGAT flagged it for Lower Reportable levels of Boron, & 3.0% Fuel dilution, where Blackstone said there was no fuel dilution.

I believe AGAT flags it if the additive depleteion drops below 50% of virgin oil specs.

sample was sent at 5350 kilometers.


interesting how the 2 reports differ on fuel dilution...?

I'd take your personal info of the reports also.
 
got hundreds of them, just none on a car or fleet stock and all the ones I manage are in hours- not miles or km.

Never had one on my own vehicles I sample either but I wouldn't expect one based on what I use OA for.
 
interesting how the 2 reports differ on fuel dilution...?

I'd take your personal info of the reports also.

Even the viscosities were different numbers.
54.2 / 8.55 Blackstone, 47.5 / 9.0 AGAT
I had done the same experiment testing /AGAT against another testing company on a previous sample, & they were relatively consistent between the 2.
 
Over 15 years ago, I used Mobil 1 supersyn in a Lexus GS430. Every 3-4k miles I took a sample and sent it to Blackstone. Changing the oil in that cars was such a PITA, and sampling it was easy, so I figured I'd sample it at regular intervals and change when needed. At 10,000 miles on this oil, they still gave it a thumbs-up, said keep running it. Soon after that I sold the car, so I don't know how long that oil lasted!

BTW, this site has been around long enough, I think one of those UOAs is posted here...
 
Not to hijack, but how about examples of Blackstone reports that indicate imminent mechanical failure? This has always seemed like a compelling reason to run an occasional analysis on my high-mileage, well-maintained engines. If for example my lead or chromium spikes on one then I know it's time to sell it LOL
 
Not to hijack, but how about examples of Blackstone reports that indicate imminent mechanical failure? This has always seemed like a compelling reason to run an occasional analysis on my high-mileage, well-maintained engines. If for example my lead or chromium spikes on one then I know it's time to sell it LOL

Don't ever base a mechanical decision on an OA. Its not capable of giving an accurate one.
 
Don't ever base a mechanical decision on an OA. Its not capable of giving an accurate one.
I will disagree.
UOAs can be a reasonably accurate tool to judge wear. It's been shown as such in many SAE studies using various different methodologies ranging from filter studies to OCI studies.
UOAs are not perfect; that's true. But they are a very low expense relative to the information they impart.
They cannot see wear particles above 5um, but what they do see (below 5um) can be inferred as a relative wear rate.
UOAs are a direct view of lube status (FP, vis, etc). But these are only predictors; they are not an assurance that anything WILL happen.
UOAs are an indirect view of wear (wear metals). These are results; they are a story of what has actually happen.

Most people don't know how to properly use a UOA. UOAs are tools; there are proper and improper uses for the tool. You have to understand both the benefits and limitations of the tool. Most folks around here use UOAs at toys, not tools. UOAs can provide lots of good information, but that information is only useful to someone who actually understands what it will, and will not, tell you.

What I agree with is that you should never base a major decision on a sole UOA and nothing more. Don't decide to rip an engine apart based on one UOA. Don't decide to run an OCI way longer based on just one UOA; you need to know the historical basis of the equipment and also the trends of the species.
 
I will disagree.
UOAs can be a reasonably accurate tool to judge wear. It's been shown as such in many SAE studies using various different methodologies ranging from filter studies to OCI studies.
UOAs are not perfect; that's true. But they are a very low expense relative to the information they impart.
They cannot see wear particles above 5um, but what they do see (below 5um) can be inferred as a relative wear rate.
UOAs are a direct view of lube status (FP, vis, etc). But these are only predictors; they are not an assurance that anything WILL happen.
UOAs are an indirect view of wear (wear metals). These are results; they are a story of what has actually happen.

Most people don't know how to properly use a UOA. UOAs are tools; there are proper and improper uses for the tool. You have to understand both the benefits and limitations of the tool. Most folks around here use UOAs at toys, not tools. UOAs can provide lots of good information, but that information is only useful to someone who actually understands what it will, and will not, tell you.

What I agree with is that you should never base a major decision on a sole UOA and nothing more. Don't decide to rip an engine apart based on one UOA. Don't decide to run an OCI way longer based on just one UOA; you need to know the historical basis of the equipment and also the trends of the species.

Respectfully, I must countermand your disagreement. What I said (in context to what I was addressing) is correct regardless, but I am not sure I understand what you are disagreeing on as your commentary seems to mirror my own except on the judgement of wear part. That’s a significant part of a machine’s life cycle and all the asset metrics so can’t just be set aside. (Particularly as the cost of the machine and associated costs go up)

I was (inactive) a Professional Member of SAE and am intimately familiar with their studies and findings. (and many of the inherent weaknesses). That stamp of approval doesn’t carry significant weight with me beyond the perfunctory professional just due.

Factually there is no direct relationship to any UOA finding anywhere by anyone where readings directly identify and correlate to a specific mechanical component in any legitimately qualifiable way. (which was the crux my statement is based on). That’s a stand-alone irrefutable fact.

As a direct result of that fact as stated, there is no way to judge any wear of any component of any machine by particle counts on a UOA. (even the tables of origin are generic, generalized and non-descript)

I personally have done/managed/certified thousands of machines globally from design (sometimes) to commissioning to end of life rebuild with full compliment of OA, VA, Therm, Technical Inspections and have yet to see a single machine where any degree of wear could be measured or identified on any P-F curve anywhere. At best a vague reference to a bearing or gear based on alloys but then try to find that wearing spot.

I additionally have never seen one that measured wear on the P-F curve once we went to continuous monitoring with a known failure.

I am reasonably confident neither you nor SAE as an org nor anyone else has either, but I invite anyone to produce one. I would love to see it.

I concede that in certain cases a particular item might be specifically identified by a unique alloy mixture but that’s rare and even then not enough data in a particle count or wear analysis to solely base any mechanical decision on.


OA’s are good to identify contamination events, event ranges, operational changes and to a degree patterns of overall degradation of a given machine but that’s about the equinox of the technology in its current state. Anything beyond that is better served by UT, VA, Therm etc.

I agree without reservation on people misunderstanding the power and role of the OA (I make a living off it)

Unfortunately, I also know of “aggressive salespeople” who push OA claims to extremes in terms of what it can and can’t do. (deal with that too)

Sorry but I had to push back on that part of your disagreement- too much evidence to the contrary.
 
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