Anyone else dissapointed by Honda cars?

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I find that on some rough road surfaces my Accord transmits a lot more road noise than I would expect. It was even worse when I had an Acura CL-S a few years back. Otherwise I am pleased with my Honda.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Got the fiancee's 09 Fit Sport auto for a couple hundred below MSRP after taxes. We didn't get fleeced, but we didn't get a screaming deal either. It was a "used" car, apparently a demo-day car for the corporate types. No dealer [censored] on it.

She already refuses to go back to the dealer we bought the car at. Not a good experience with buying it. They had price and not much else. The markups on the extended warranty we didn't get were ridiculous.

The Fits in particular are one of the only cars to increase sales over last year. Dealers aren't willing to part with them for any real deals.

It's 100% Japan-sourced, and it shows. It doesn't ride like an American car, or even a 7th gen Civic. Fit/finish is a bit better on the Fit than my friend's 06 Civic.


Why ae they getting MSRP when there is like a 147 day supply of them, they should be going for invoice with rebate. A 60 day supply is considered normal.
 
I think a lot of it depends on where you live. In areas with a lot of Honda dealers, there may be more pressure to bargain. But in areas like mine where dealers are at least an hour apart, they seem to be willing to hold out. All I could get my dealer to drop was the stupid dealer-added charges. I think they just tack those on just so they can drop them and make you think you got a deal. But my salesman knew I walked in with the "please let me buy a car from you" face so I don't think tried to hard to drop any prices.

I'll tell you this, my dealer is moving the heck out of Insights all of the sudden, or at least trading them to other dealers. Their stock has dropped considerably since I last looked a couple of weeks ago.
 
This one was at $16k even for a Fit Sport automatic (MSRP ~$17k), and taxes pushed the total back up to MSRP. This was also at the only Honda dealer for about a 50 mile radius around our hometown in upstate NY.

After reading on what other people are paying, I still think we made out all right. Being a used car, we effectively traded 6 months warranty for a lower price. And we can still get an extended warranty from Honda if we want to. We might do that out to 5 years to cover things as the car ages.
 
Originally Posted By: Throckmorton
I find that on some rough road surfaces my Accord transmits a lot more road noise than I would expect. It was even worse when I had an Acura CL-S a few years back. Otherwise I am pleased with my Honda.


If there was one complaint I have with my TL is the road noise. It's a little better than the Accord but not much. Between the $900 windshield and all the extra sound deadening it sure didn't make a lot of difference. Wind noise is nearly non-existant though. Maybe it's the stiffer suspension bushings of the TL that make it sort of break even on the road noise.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
This one was at $16k even for a Fit Sport automatic (MSRP ~$17k), and taxes pushed the total back up to MSRP. This was also at the only Honda dealer for about a 50 mile radius around our hometown in upstate NY.

After reading on what other people are paying, I still think we made out all right. Being a used car, we effectively traded 6 months warranty for a lower price. And we can still get an extended warranty from Honda if we want to. We might do that out to 5 years to cover things as the car ages.


Right, but it IS still used or demo or whatever. What were they selling similar NEW Fits for at the dealership?

Not knocking it, by the way. Wish I'd stumbled on one.
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When I sold Honda cars I wasn't impressed with their transmissions especially in the V6 Accords and the Odyssey Mini vans. Lots of comebacks in the used car department. People who own them love them, I'm really not overly impressed with them. To each his own. JMO
 
Most of what I've read on here and elsewhere said that the 5 speed auto issues had been taken care of. Still, nagging concerns over that and all the electrogizmos are what made me opt for an extended warranty on my Odyssey.
 
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Originally Posted By: sciphi
This one was at $16k even for a Fit Sport automatic (MSRP ~$17k), and taxes pushed the total back up to MSRP. This was also at the only Honda dealer for about a 50 mile radius around our hometown in upstate NY.

After reading on what other people are paying, I still think we made out all right. Being a used car, we effectively traded 6 months warranty for a lower price. And we can still get an extended warranty from Honda if we want to. We might do that out to 5 years to cover things as the car ages.


Right, but it IS still used or demo or whatever. What were they selling similar NEW Fits for at the dealership?

Not knocking it, by the way. Wish I'd stumbled on one.
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New Fits were full-price. A comparable Fit Sport AT was right around $18k with destination and dealer add-ons. Make that about $19.5k out the door with tax/title/registration.

According to the dealer records and the Carfax, it was put on the road in late 2008, and it had 350 miles on the odometer when we picked it up. Looked brand-new still.
 
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Most of what I've read on here and elsewhere said that the 5 speed auto issues had been taken care of. Still, nagging concerns over that and all the electrogizmos are what made me opt for an extended warranty on my Odyssey.


We were having a good share of the 04-06 TL people having transmission problems. I got together with my trans builder and I think we came up with a winner. I posted a thread on it over at acurazine.com. Basically, the 3rd and 4th gear sensors begin failing, the shifts become sloppy, you eventually get the shudder and then total failure. By replacing these sensors, many, many people have saved their transmissions which were on their way out. Mine was getting very sloppy with bumpshifts on every shift. The sensors cured it. There were several that already had the shudder which meant total failure was right around the corner and the sensors fixed them, completely stopped the shudder and returned it to new car like shift quality.
 
In certain years of TLs you could not get the manual unless you got the S option, which was considerably more expensive.

I will agree with GN's complaint on the road noise. I thought it was just the stock tires, but I know he has replaced his.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Why didn't you get a 6 speed TL ?

An auto trans would drive me nuts.


It's just a way to get from point a to point b in decent comfort and style. Performance is the last thing on my mind when driving that car.
 
fwiw, I'm getting 27.5 mpg mixed driving in my Accord, a fair sized car. No other vehicle ever devivered over 22-24 for me. That is what we get every time in the CRV, a comfortable sized 4WD SUV. My V6 A4 would settle at 19.5 to 21.5.

No complaints in the mpg department.
 
I've never been really impressed with Hondas, although during the eighties and early 90s they were quite a bit more reliable than most other brands.

Our family had a 2000 Accord V6 and a 1994 Accord LX 4cyl.

The 2000 V6 had lots of problems with egr issues, oil gallies in the engine being improperly machined and brake disc issues. Plus BOTH cat converters failed at about 85k. Probably due to the dealer overfilling the oil crankcase by two quarts on most occasions when having the oil changed. Piedmont Honda, Anderson SC...There were a couple of decent techs there, but the service manager is shady, I know, I used to work for him.

The 94 has been ok but had issues with a buzzing exhaust manafold, never solved because it would take big money to fix it. The HVAC blend door is not operative so you always get heat in the car unless you use the AC. Also the ignition switch and tumbler failed stranding my Dad in the parking lot of a store at night, and a strange vibration at idle which transmits itself through the steering wheel. All these issues occured at LESS than 85k miles on the odo.

I have a 96 VW Golf GL, 115k, and except for a varying idle that was fixed with a ECU reflash when new, has had NO notable issues. Amazing huh?
 
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My parents and I have had good experiences with Hondas since 1973. The first car I owned was a brand new 1986 Honda Prelude Si that I kept until 2003. I traded it in for a 5-year old Acura CL3.0 with 97,000 miles. The only serious complaint I had about the Prelude is that it rusted sooner and more extensively that I would have liked, a problem a lot of Hondas had in the 1970s and 1980s. I was young and inexperienced when I first owned the Prelude and I did not give it the care it deserved, and it still gave me 17 years of faithful service. My memory is that it went through wear items (e.g. brake pads and rotors, muffler, and batteries) on a reasonable schedule, but that it had few real problems. It is possible that I had to replace the struts at some point, but I don’t really recall. I had to replace two or three of the fuel injectors, but I think that was as much my fault as Honda’s. During two years of graduate school and a year of working abroad (the car stayed in the U.S. that year and was mostly parked) I don’t think it was driven enough. My guess is that some gunk built up in the tank due to the lack of driving. The fuel system passed some of that gunk on to the injectors which got dirty and burned out. The most annoying problem I had with the Prelude was the driver door light switch was flakey, but that is the only gremlin the car had. I was a relatively inexperienced manual shift driver when I bought the car so I did have to replace the clutch after 40,000 miles or so. All-in-all, it was still a joy to drive the day I traded it in. The Prelude met my pre-purchase requirements: it had to always start and not leave me stranded (I did leave the lights on twice and ran down the battery, but I don’t think I can count that against the Prelude) and it had to be sporty enough, which it was, and safe enough, which fortunately I never really tested. The only performance knock I would give the Prelude is that it went better than it stopped, that is it accelerated better than the brakes would haul it back down.

The Acura CL with the J30A1 3.0 liter V6 and 4-speed auto has been the proverbial cream-puff used car. The previous owner had done all of the service at the dealer so I got a full set of service records with it. While I was wary about believing in those records when I bought the car, the lack of problems over the past six years has given me faith in their validity. I bought the CL with over 97,000 miles had have put on over 80,000 more. All of the service in the last 6 years has cost a grand total of $5,100. This includes two new sets of tires, a battery, rear brake pads and rotors and two of the extensive and relatively expensive 30,000 mile services. The only actual repairs that the car has needed are a brake caliper and ball joints.

Over the years I have learned more about auto maintenance and how to find a good mechanic. I do much of the simple routine work myself so I have saved some money there though I tend to over service it (e.g. I change the ATF more often than required). I also found a great local mechanic so I have probably saved a thousand dollars in labor costs over what a dealer would have charged. So with almost 180,000 miles it still feels, and pretty much still looks, like a new car.

My family has a long history with Honda cars. My father bought a Civic in 1973. My family has owned a total of six Honda vehicles (’73 Civic, ’86 Civic Si, ’86 Prelude Si, ’86 Accord, ’92 Accord EX, ’98 Acura CL3.0, and a ’99 Accord). The ’86 Accord and the ’98 Acura CL were purchased used, the others were all purchased new. The only one that really had serious problems was the ’86 Accord. It has some transmission problems, but I think the combination of the previous owner’s neglect, and my sister’s abuse probably had more to do with those problems than Honda’s design and build quality. As I mentioned earlier, the earlier Hondas had rust problems. The ’73 Civic had very bad rust problems and I believe it was eventually recalled and repaired by Honda.

1986 was the turning point for my family in Honda purchases. The only non-Honda purchase that we have made since then is a used Toyota Avalon that I bought for my wife. So in 22 years, with four drivers (my parents, my wife and me), we have split six cars (five Hondas), and three of them are still on the road and the only cars we own.

To me, the interesting comparison is my family’s 26 years of car ownership before that. My parents’ owned a 1960 Mercedes-Benz 190, a 1964 Ford Econoline (purchased used from a little old lady, my grandmother), a 1966 Mercedes-Benz 230, a 1968 Ford Cortina (imported English Ford), the 1973 Civic, a 1974 Volvo 164 and a 1976 Buick Skylark. The 1966 Mercedes was the nicest driving of the bunch, and the Volvo was probably the worst, though I can’t comment on the 1960 Mercedes or the Cortina as I never drove either of them. While in lots of ways the Skylark, purchased new, was a clunky car (bad paint, lots of rust, poor fit and finish), it was probably the least expensive of these cars to maintain. The Skylark also had the unfortunate desire to want premium fuel to keep from knocking, even though it was only supposed to need regular. It looked like [censored], but we kept it for 14 years/140,000 miles before giving it away.

In sum, I have had a Honda car for 23 years and they have worked well for me. My family’s experience is that if the cars are well cared for they will last a long time (’73 Civic – 13 years, ’86 Civic – 13 years, ’86 Prelude – 17 years, ’86 Accord – 12 years, ’92 Accord – 16 years, ’98 Acura – 11 years and counting, ’99 Accord – 10 years and counting). All of the older cars were still drivable when they went on to new owners. Taking good care of these cars is not cheap, but still seems cheaper than having to get a new, or at least a newer, car. Personally, I would rather put money into the cars as preventive maintenance on my schedule, than to sit by the side of the road contemplating expensive repairs on the car’s unplanned schedule.

I think my family’s experience is that Hondas have gotten better over the years. Some of these improvements are industry wide: greater safety, better performance powerful and greater reliability than in the 1970s. My impression is that Honda has led the industry in many of these areas, and that it had earned its good reputation over the years. I’m a decade back in experience as a 1999 model year car is the newest one that I have experience with, but they were good until then. The style and performance of other makes will tempt me to look at them the next time I buy a car, but I for sure will also look at Honda’s offerings also.
 
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