Any TRUE gasoline/refinery folks here? Refinery operators?

[Pablo]

I am just wondering (as always) what is exactly going on this minute with gasoline formulation. Can we have an insider speak up? Any refinery operators here? I'm not talking egg headed future or rotten egg past - but currently: 1) What are the majors and minors doing? 2) How did Conoco/Phillips make their big "oops"? 3) What are they blending in differently? 4) What about the Pb in Ga? 5) What amount of EtOH are they really trying to max at and how is it treated? Thanks, Pablito

 

[Bugshu]

I can pretty much guarantee you that you will have a hard time finding a Phillips employee thats willing to discuss the explosion. Im guessing that the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden are secrets less tightly guarded. Phillips employees are being uniquely silent regarding this issue and Im confident that they have been instructed to remain so for a long foreseeable future. Happy Motoring All, Bugshu

 

[gudmund]

....."a Phillips employee thats willing to dicuss the explosion"....???? the refinery that exploded down your way was owned by BP/Arco - at least that's what we up this way were told per the news media. I think Pablo is talking about the problem that Conaco/Phillips had up this way last week or so (Pacific Northwest-Pablo's neighbor-Ferndale, Wash.) with putting too much of some kind of polymer additive in their fuel that screwed up so many fuel injection systems in cars and now aircraft in this area-western Washington.

 

[Pablo]

Yeah gudmund has it right. Yes Conoco Phillips or what we used to call the Tosco refinery. (Not our BP Cherry point one) I was not referring at all to the explosion - I wanted to hear some fuel chat. I guess no one here wants to publicly share - I understand. There must be some refinery folks here who can talk in general terms? Stanwood! Dude we are neighbors (on a BiTOG scale)

 

[gudmund]

yes, just a skip and a jump away from each other but you are closer to them two refineres than I am, but I got you beat on the Shell one by just a mile or two(po box Stanwood, live on Camano). I go though Lynden every so often when out cruising the area. Will take heading north too your neck of the woods ANYDAY over a drive to anything south!!!! Seattle/Everett area sucks

 

[wileyE]

quote:

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2) How did Conoco/Phillips make their big "oops"?

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Heard some speculation from a fuel broker today that went something like this: The heavy polymer was probably the correct type and amount. The problem was probably the way it mixed. If the add is put into a low fuel tank or empty tank any contamination (dirt?) can stick or bond to it and be carried into the fuel, the combination may not dissove properly. When blended correctly the polymer disolves and stays in solution and is not a problem. The guy I talked to said his shipping papers used to define the additives so he was more up on what was going into each brand. Now everything is trademarked, Techron, SuperClean, etc.. so it's hard to tell. It's constantly changing and fuel is being swapped around so much you don't know what your getting. His opinion was brands don't mean much anymore, and he looks for the cheapest stuff for his own cars.

 

[Hirev]

I have to wonder how they are going to get all the bad gas out of the service stations gas tanks. You don't suppose they will keep selling bad gas for sometime do you? LOL. IMO I think it will come down to what is acceptable in PPM. I work at a gas station when I was in high school many years ago. Many people would be shocked if they knew how much garbage settles at the bottom of big gasoline tanks over time. We did not sell gasoline for up to 20 minutes after a load of gasoline was delivered because it stirred up so many debris on the bottom of the tanks in the delivery process it would clog fuel filters! So its a real good idea to never fill up during a fuel dump. My boss's dad at the gas station was retired out of the refinery industry. He used to say that the very large gasoline tanks used in the refinerys where he worked would collect debris measured in feet even though they cleaned them out fairly often.

 

[k1xv]

quote:

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Originally posted by Hirev: I have to wonder how they are going to get all the bad gas out of the service stations gas tanks. You don't suppose they will keep selling bad gas for sometime do you? LOL. IMO I think it will come down to what is acceptable in PPM. My boss's dad at the gas station was retired out of the refinery industry. He used to say that the very large gasoline tanks used in the refinerys where he worked would collect debris measured in feet even though they cleaned them out fairly often.

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Typically, where there is off-spec product that cannot be sold or treated, it is hauled back to the refinery and put through the still once again along with crude oil. At the refinery where I worked years ago, they would purge the tank with nitrogen until all the hydrocarbons were gone. Then they would cut a "window" in the side of the tank large enough for a bulldozer to go in and out. They would bulldoze out the rust and crap.