Any downsides to switching to a 10W-30?

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May I ask how long the "tapping" lasts?

The reason I ask is because mine occasionally "taps" also, but it had nothing to do with oil, as the car had Valvoline when I bought it, then Pennzoil, before switching to M1.

I don't know if your engine management system is like mine, but upon startup, mine calibrates itself for fuel type, by purposely advancing the timing until it detects knock.

Sometime it sounds worse than other times, but it never lasts more than a second.
 
Wayne, what filter? Those AC's? Or something else. Because I can't imagine how M1 10w30 would cause that over 5w30 unless if maybe it is WELL below 0F outside and on a cold start. I have no problems with it on the Jimmy (yes diff eng so can't really compare) but she did take it to Pep Boys one time and they put thier stupid Pro-Line filter on it and it had some tapping on startup.

I guess my point is, there are other filters than Fram that can cause that. (is ProLine made by Fram?)
 
quote:

Originally posted by Dominic:
[Cold startup valvetap is something I dislike, and the valvoline solved my problem. I blame the Mobil1.

I don't believe any major oil will cause engine problems. Some oils work better in different engines under different conditions. The best example I can think of is the LS1 oil consumption issues. Many people had issues with Mobil1 which reduced considerably when switching to another brand. GM has actually admitted a problem with the engines. What this tells me is that the other oil "masked" the problem better, but it is a problem with the engine rather than the oil.

I think it is unfair to blame Mobil1 for your problem, unless you have done extensive testing to prove otherwise, which using another brand does not qualify.
 
Just thinking out loud here but,Is it possible that the hydrodynamic film of mobil is slightly thinner than the others they switched to? say in respect that the Cst of mobil may be on the bottom end of the scale as opposed to valvoline being on the mid to upper end of the scale, therefore, the slightly thicker film providing a little more cusion between the two mating surfaces. This all leads back to my point of shearing of the hydrodynamic film. Since m1's oil is capable of lower flow points, maybe it is flowing easier but at the same time not providing near the thickness as the others allowing the tapping to be more pronounced. Not to mention that once the oil starts to gain temp, it then will start to provide a slightly higher viscosity due to the increase temp, therefore beginning to provide more cusion between the two surfaces.
 
The problem is, he switched from a thinner to a thicker oil, so the hydrodynamic film should be about 1.5 um thicker at the highest loads. The thicker oil film should be providing a greater cushioning effect than the the thinner oil.

My experience with M1 SS (10W30) [no additives] so far, is that it actually quiets the engine considerably in the two vehicles I have installed it in: the '86 Burb with a modified 350 (hydraulic lifters), and the Nissan 2.4L with solid lifters and tappets.

What he might want to try is the EP #132 at a treat rate of 1oz/qt. sump capacity and see if the noise disappears.

WTD,

have you determined the source of this noise? Lifters, pistons, PCV valve, etc.

I once had a PCV that was loosened by the introduction of synthetics and made a clacking sound with the vacuum pulsations until it warmed up.
 
Guys, thanks for the replies. Here is a little history on the truck and some answers to your questions.

I bought the truck new with 28 miles on it. I ran conventional Mobil untill about 14,000 miles and at this time I switched to Mobil 1 which I run to date. I always used the 5W-30 weight and always changed at 3,000 miles except for one 5,000 interval last year. Truck currently has about 42,400 miles on it.

I first noticed the cold start tapping noise last year at about 32,000 miles. It doesn't seem to do it every time I cold start it, but it does seem like it is getting slightly worse. The tapping usually quites down within a minute of running.

I had the intake manifold gaskets replaced at aroung 24,000 miles because of coolant leaks but this is the only time this engine has been opened up.

The tapping sounds like its coming from the lifters to me, like its taking awhile for them to pump up. The 5W-30 supersyn supposedly flows down to -54*F and the 10W-30 supersyn down to -49*F. I don't know if this small difference in flow would cause the louder tapping. The tapping was probably at least twice as loud as it ever has done before. The temperature at the time was about 75 degrees. I would hate to think how loud it would have been if it was really cold out.

I use an AC-Delco UPF52 filter which is the gold series filter that was out before they were discontinued. I still have a small stock of them. I've been using this filter for almost three years but I don't know if it has an anti-drainback valve in it or not. Before that, I used the regular blue AC-Delco PF52 filter.

This is the first time I used the Supersyn in this truck.

My personal thought on this, is that the 10W when cold, is not getting up to the lifters and upper valvetrain as fast as the 5W did thus causing the tapping to be louder and last longer. I did notice that once the truck was warmed up, the engine sounded quiter with the 10W-30 compared to the 5W-30. I also noticed that the engine seemed to be a little more sluggish with the 10W-30 when it warmed up. This engine never has been real quiet. When I was still using conventional Mobil, I took the truck to the dealer one time because the lifters seemed to be too loud, but they told me it was normal and since I wasn't having any performance or oil burning issues, I just let it go. Probably a mistake on my part.

So what does everyone think I should do? I'm leaning toward switching back to the 5W-30, especially with winter coming. I don't know if switching to a different brand of oil will solve anything. Thanks again.

Wayne
 
Wayne, I think you should stick with the 10w30, but I also think you might benefit from using Auto-rx in this engine. I had a noisy valvetrain in my 350 when I first got this car, and it's not almost totally quiet after running a GM additive (called Lubricity additive) and then Auto-rx.
 
Data point in this discussion on Mobil 1 and apparent valve train noise. I'm a member of a Miata forum. Mobil 1 (10W30) is the favorite oil of Miata owners. Valve train noise at startup is a common complaint by Miata owners.

Maybe the problem be Mobil 1?
 
At that mileage it sounds like something is wrong for it to make noise. Do you lose antifreeze? A leak into the oil can cause sludge fast. Maybe you should get a test run on the oil. There are two filters by AC that fit the car I think and one does not have the backflow valve. Make sure yours has it. Good luck, RW
 
I'd check that the filter had the anti-drain valve, then also consider before condeming mobil 1 that occasionaly even good filters can have defective valves once and a while. about 2% of those we install don't hold.
 
I've been doing regular oil analysis on this truck for the last year and there has not been any antifreeze in the oil.

I guess I'm going to call AC-Delco to find out whether or not the UPF52 filter has an anti-drain back valve. It probably does, since when I first started using them, I didn't have this problem.

I'm still undecided about keeping the 10W-30 in. If I take it out, it won't go to waste since I use Mobil 1 10W-30 in my wife's 98 Grand Prix.

Wayne
 
Elinminate one variable at a time, the first being the filter, as you planned.

As Patman suggested, clean the engine with an engine cleaner in case one or more of the lifters isn't pumping up due to a small amount of carbon.

I assume thses engines also have adjustable tappet/rocker arms. They just may need adjusting, since you said you had the tapping noise all along.

If anything, I would have thought SS would have further cleaned the engine, since it seems to have quite a detergent package.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Jason Troxell:
Wayne, what filter? Those AC's? Or something else. Because I can't imagine how M1 10w30 would cause that over 5w30 unless if maybe it is WELL below 0F outside and on a cold start. I have no problems with it on the Jimmy (yes diff eng so can't really compare) but she did take it to Pep Boys one time and they put thier stupid Pro-Line filter on it and it had some tapping on startup.

I guess my point is, there are other filters than Fram that can cause that. (is ProLine made by Fram?)


Jason, Proline oil filters and some airfilters are made by Purolater. According to the infamous oil filter study, the Proline oil filters are indentical to the Purolater Premium Plus. I purchase the Proline air filter for my Acura, it is the exact same filter as the Purolater, is in a different box, but costs $5 less. -Joe
 
quote:

Originally posted by LarryM:
Data point in this discussion on Mobil 1 and apparent valve train noise. I'm a member of a Miata forum. Mobil 1 (10W30) is the favorite oil of Miata owners. Valve train noise at startup is a common complaint by Miata owners.

Maybe the problem be Mobil 1?


I doubt it. I used to own a 95 Escort GT, which uses the same engine as the Miata, and that car ran Mobil 1 from new until I sold it at 50k. No valvetrain noise whatsoever.
 
Patman,
I don't think its a bad batch since I got the 5qrt jug from a new shipment that the local walmart got in. The label had the correct SL designation unlike some earlier SS jugs I looked at.

I did find out that the AC-Delco UPF52 with the synthetic filter media does have the anti-drainback valve in it. I may try a regular PF52 filter next oil change to see if it changes anything.

I changed back to the 5W-30 today as I didn't like hearing the sharp tapping at startup with the 10W-30. The tapping is much quieter with the 5W-30. I may try the 10W-30 again next summer when its alot hotter out.

Wayne
 
WTD Wrote:
"This engine never has been real quiet. When I was still using conventional Mobil, I took the truck to the dealer one time because the lifters seemed to be too loud, but they told me it was normal and since I wasn't having any performance or oil burning issues, I just let it go. Probably a mistake on my part".

I feel certain you do not have enough lifter preload,you show all the symtoms of this.

I would take it and have the valves run on it,lifter preload varies but that is measured in thousands of inches. On your truck they should be adjusted while at hot idle,backed off until the lifter barely clicks then in 1 to 1 1/2 full turn back in on a daily driver.Performance motors with hydraulic cams are adjusted differently with anti pump style lifters which is a different subject. It would only cost 30 or so bucks to have this done if you are not able to do it yourself,I would pick a independant for the job though,,bet ya a nickel thats your problem especially given the history
Please try this! :)It truly is the fist step,oil nor the filter is your problem. The 10/30 was the correct choice imo

[ September 19, 2002, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
 
dragboat,
Thanks for the information. I'll check into getting this done. I'll have to find a mechanic I can trust around here.

Wayne
 
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