Any bad UOA's with pennzoil platinum??

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Wow. So, you're admitting that the dealers, and you(?) install 30 wt oil in cars that call for 20, not because you believe it's better, but rather, to increase your profit margin. I assume you get a written authorization from each customer agreeing to accept a non-recommended product?

This sort of practice is why nobody will EVER fill my crankcase from a bulk oil tank. As appalling as it sounds, the whole industry can't be trusted. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but you just set it out in detail yourself.

Hate to say, Many dealers do this. And most all of those owners manuals (very few exceptions) Allow '30wt' type oils to be used. My Vehicles' oil cap shows "use 5w-20". however, the "recommended" oils (in the owners manual) include 5w-20, 5w-30, 10w-30, Etc.

 

[glxpassat]

Originally Posted By: pzev
I always laugh at the people saying to never use 30wt or higher in cars calling for 20wt. I laugh because as we just read a few posts up, even dealers rarely put 20wt oils where they are specified...


Not only that, but countries like Germany and Australia use 30w and 40w in the same Honda motors that we put 20w into. Go to Castrol's website for those countries and others and see what they recommend in the same motors that call for 20w in the US...

 

[law3500]

Two points, One I have been in the auto repair business for over 12 years and I have never let anyone else change my oil, but diy'ers are such a small percentage of what is out there, we live in a world where every shop in town is advertising 12.95 and 13.95 oil changes so every penny counts to be cometative, second in the last 2 years at my current location i could count on one hand the number of times someone actually asked for 5w20 and our invoices dont lie they say 5w30 on everyone and NO ONE cares, I would hazard to guess that 90% of the people on this site change there own oil but you would be appaled at the maint. habbits of the other 99% of the population. at at 10 cents a quart and I buy oil 200 gal a week that is $1600.00 a month

 

[law3500]

I can also tell you that 80 to 90% of our customers with high line Audi/Porsche/Merc/BMW vehicles refuse to pay for full synthetic oil that meets factory spec, we tell every one of them what the engine requires and that many of them just want the 13.95 special with formula shell bulk 5w-30..

 

[wannafbody]

Not surprising. It's guys with mid priced cars who want them to last forever that take care of them.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: pzev
I always laugh at the people saying to never use 30wt or higher in cars calling for 20wt. I laugh because as we just read a few posts up, even dealers rarely put 20wt oils where they are specified.... . .

Exactly who is saying "never use 30wt ... in cars calling for 20 wt"? Certainly not me.

You rarely see that here, and when you do, it's usually in the context of a wty "safety" issue.

Please, these discussions get "entertaining" enough without the issues being misstated, or the participants being misquoted. Let's try to keep it somewhat real.

What I laugh at is folks who are convinced they will be fine using a 30 wt oil, while also being convinced that their will be damaged using a 20 wt oil that's less than a single cSt less viscous than their favorite 30 wt.

 

[Sayjac]

Proves what they say, Ignorance is bliss. When the manufacturer calls for 5w20, that's what I want, no ifs, ands or buts. If you can't deliver that, I'll take my business elsewhere.

Some huckster in south Georgia, Statesboro to be precise, put 10w30 in my daughters 01 Civic which calls for only 5w20. He took advantage of my daughter's inexperience and used their bulk oil.

When I found out and called him on it, he flat out lied and said that's what Honda called for in that climate, some [censored] about a TSB. Wrong answer! His worker on a previous call told me they use a bulk 10w30.

Don't count me among the "NO ONE" who doesn't care. If some asks for 5w20 and you put 5w30 in without their knowledge until after they see the [censored] "invoice", that's just flat out wrong. I don't care how much it saves the shop.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Hate to say, Many dealers do this. And most all of those owners manuals (very few exceptions) Allow '30wt' type oils to be used. My Vehicles' oil cap shows "use 5w-20". however, the "recommended" oils (in the owners manual) include 5w-20, 5w-30, 10w-30, Etc.


Same here... My oil cap says 5w20 (Hyundai Santa Fe), and the manual calls for everything under the sun up to a 20w50 if ambient operating temperature is hot enough.

I have only used 5w20 once and changed it out within the first 2K KM because of noisy lifters and have stuck with a 30wt ever since.

I'm almost at 200K KM (120K miles), my UOA's look great and the truck performs like it did when I bought it. When I changed the spark plugs at 100K KM I checked the compression and I have exactly factory specs on all cylinders. Pretty darn good for 100K KM (60K miles) Not even a .5 psi difference!

I don't buy the "DANGER, DANGER, Use only a 20wt" non-sense that some BITOGERS claim to be the case, at least not for my engine!

(Not pointing at you EKPOLK)

 

[Sayjac]

fwiw, Honda Ford owners manual doesn't call every weight under the sun. It calls for 5w20. I believe my owners manual. In the Honda no other weight mentioned on any chart.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
. . . If some asks for 5w20 and you put 5w30 in without their knowledge until after they see the [censored] "invoice", that's just flat out wrong. I don't care how much it saves the shop.


Beyond being simply "wrong", which it most definitely is, it's also a breach of contract, or depending upon what the shop told the customer, flat out fraud. But of course, who's going to pursue a small individual transaction like this legally... It's like the old joke about the dog -- they do it because they can.

 

[StevieC]

EK can you post your post in the other thread here about the 20wt oils... I think that speaks for itself.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
EK can you post your post in the other thread here about the 20wt oils... I think that speaks for itself.


But of course. In fact, I have that collection saved in WordPerfect, with the specific intent of "recycling" the info as appropriate. Here you go:

ORIGINAL IN OTHER THREAD NEARBY

I agree. In reality, there would be few situations in the real world (if any, really) where there'd be any real harm done by using a 30 wt oil in an engine that is spec-ed for a 20. On the other hand, I see no real reason to do so, unless it's something strictly practical, as in you have already drained your oil, only to find that you mistakenly bought a case of 30 instead of 20.

I suppose the real question would be, "why bother with a 30 wt when the recommended 20 will probably perform better and save you a modest amount of fuel?" Here's a little "just for fun". I collected the links below from our Gasoline UOA section. There are ten of our newest 20 wt UOAs, and ten of our oldest 20 wt UOAs. One or two of them show elevated iron, but that's clearly from another problem (Si), not the oil, and besides, it's not as if we don't see poor 30 wt UOA too. Otherwise, they're all STELLAR!
Ancient 20 wt UOAs from BITOG:

Old 20 UOA-1
Old 20 UOA-2
Old 20 UOA-3
Old 20 UOA-4
Old 20 UOA-5
Old 20 UOA-6
Old 20 UOA-7
Old 20 UOA-8
Old 20 UOA-9
Old 20 UOA-10

And the newest ten:

New 20 UOA-1
New 20 UOA-2
New 20 UOA-3
New 20 UOA-4
New 20 UOA-5
New 20 UOA-6
New 20 UOA-7
New 20 UOA-8
New 20 UOA-9
New 20 UOA-10

So, for all of you who are utterly and absolutely convinced that the 20 wt oils are liquid evil that will not protect your engine, how can you explain the long-term, consistent, objective record that the 20 wt oils have generated? Obviously, UOAs like this don't tell the whole story, but if the 20s were no good, we'd be seeing indications of that by now, from users and their UOA. But it's not happening. The 20s are, if anything, doing better than the 30.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: jmb106
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
What is optimal protection? The Mobil 1 10W-30 High Mileage that's in my car right now takes longer to register max observed pressure (about 2/3 up the dial) than Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20.

My pressure sensor is after the filter, so wouldn't the oil that's registering more pressure, sooner, be protecting my engine better during the time when most engine wear occurs?


Exactly! That 5w20 will flow more oil at a lower psi than the 10w30. IMO i will take flow over anything else as long as i don't go below 10psi per 1k rpm.
joe


Ding, ding, ding!!!
There is more to an oil selection besides thick or thin that makes a proper oil choice.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: StevieC
EK can you post your post in the other thread here about the 20wt oils... I think that speaks for itself.


But of course. In fact, I have that collection saved in WordPerfect, with the specific intent of "recycling" the info as appropriate. Here you go:

ORIGINAL IN OTHER THREAD NEARBY

I agree. In reality, there would be few situations in the real world (if any, really) where there'd be any real harm done by using a 30 wt oil in an engine that is spec-ed for a 20. On the other hand, I see no real reason to do so, unless it's something strictly practical, as in you have already drained your oil, only to find that you mistakenly bought a case of 30 instead of 20.

I suppose the real question would be, "why bother with a 30 wt when the recommended 20 will probably perform better and save you a modest amount of fuel?" Here's a little "just for fun". I collected the links below from our Gasoline UOA section. There are ten of our newest 20 wt UOAs, and ten of our oldest 20 wt UOAs. One or two of them show elevated iron, but that's clearly from another problem (Si), not the oil, and besides, it's not as if we don't see poor 30 wt UOA too. Otherwise, they're all STELLAR!
Ancient 20 wt UOAs from BITOG:

Old 20 UOA-1
Old 20 UOA-2
Old 20 UOA-3
Old 20 UOA-4
Old 20 UOA-5
Old 20 UOA-6
Old 20 UOA-7
Old 20 UOA-8
Old 20 UOA-9
Old 20 UOA-10

And the newest ten:

New 20 UOA-1
New 20 UOA-2
New 20 UOA-3
New 20 UOA-4
New 20 UOA-5
New 20 UOA-6
New 20 UOA-7
New 20 UOA-8
New 20 UOA-9
New 20 UOA-10

So, for all of you who are utterly and absolutely convinced that the 20 wt oils are liquid evil that will not protect your engine, how can you explain the long-term, consistent, objective record that the 20 wt oils have generated? Obviously, UOAs like this don't tell the whole story, but if the 20s were no good, we'd be seeing indications of that by now, from users and their UOA. But it's not happening. The 20s are, if anything, doing better than the 30.


Thanks for taking the time to post that info. I'll continue using the 20 grade oil in the engines I have that are calling for it.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
. . .There is more to an oil selection besides thick or thin that makes a proper oil choice.


Absolutely true.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Again, show me the vehicles that have been damaged using 20 wt oils for the past eight years. . . Even in hot climates. Ignore the real-world evidence if you want, but let's just be clear about what you're doing.


OK. You either can't "get it" or don't want to. I never said
DAMAGE would occour. You can't put words in my mouth. I gave the hypothetical example of getting 265K with thin or 300K with thicker. There is no DAMAGE per se. Every car or truck manual I ever owned before my Honda suggested thin for cold, thick for hot. I am not anti thin, it just isn't optimal where I live. I wish you could understand that!


Thanks for hearing me out. Thats all for me here, thanks.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Again, show me the vehicles that have been damaged using 20 wt oils for the past eight years. . . Even in hot climates. Ignore the real-world evidence if you want, but let's just be clear about what you're doing.


OK. You either can't "get it" or don't want to. I never said
DAMAGE would occour. You can't put words in my mouth. I gave the hypothetical example of getting 265K with thin or 300K with thicker. There is no DAMAGE per se. Every car or truck manual I ever owned before my Honda suggested thin for cold, thick for hot. I am not anti thin, it just isn't optimal where I live. I wish you could understand that!


Thanks for hearing me out. Thats all for me here, thanks.


A hypothetical example is just that, hypothetical. Those numbers can easily be reversed. If the OM gives choices of oil viscosities to use, then by all means use what you feel is best. If given only one choice, use what the mfg suggests while under warranty, after that use what you like.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Again, show me the vehicles that have been damaged using 20 wt oils for the past eight years. . . Even in hot climates. Ignore the real-world evidence if you want, but let's just be clear about what you're doing.


OK. You either can't "get it" or don't want to. I never said
DAMAGE would occour. You can't put words in my mouth. I gave the hypothetical example of getting 265K with thin or 300K with thicker. There is no DAMAGE per se. Every car or truck manual I ever owned before my Honda suggested thin for cold, thick for hot. I am not anti thin, it just isn't optimal where I live. I wish you could understand that!


Thanks for hearing me out. Thats all for me here, thanks.


You may come or go as you please. Either way, it is of no consequence to me. Live by our rules, and you are welcome to disagree with anyone as long and as far as you wish.

But let's face it, now you're splitting hairs. If car A "lasts" only 265k miles, and car B (same type, right) lasts 300k miles, well then "something" must have happened to A to cause it to die an earlier death. Call it "damage", call it "wear", or call it whatever you want. You are trying to lay the difference at the feet of the 20 wt oil that might have been used in car A, AND you're suggesting that B lived longer because it was lubricated with thicker oil. I respectfully disagree.

Why don't you spend some time looking at the twenty (coincidence not intended) UOA I posted which ALL suggest that 20 wt oils do the job just fine.

Originally Posted By: gfh
I am not anti thin, it just isn't optimal where I live. I wish you could understand that!

Sir, I get that. I respectfully submit that is simply not correct. We've seen legions of vehicles run in very hot climates that end up thriving, not just surviving, on 20 wt oils. Even in very, very hot climates. Turning it around, I don't think you're going to harm your car using a 30 wt oil, but again, I no longer see the point. The 20s do as well or better, and cost you less gas in the process.

For the record, when I joined here, I too was devoutly suspicious of 20 wt oils. But having examined reams of data over the last five years, I now have to conclude that the 20s are actually "optimum" for vehicles spec-ing them.

That said, this is, fer cryin' out loud, a DISCUSSION board. Feel free to prove me wrong -- if you can!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Again, show me the vehicles that have been damaged using 20 wt oils for the past eight years. . . Even in hot climates. Ignore the real-world evidence if you want, but let's just be clear about what you're doing.


OK. You either can't "get it" or don't want to. I never said
DAMAGE would occour. You can't put words in my mouth. I gave the hypothetical example of getting 265K with thin or 300K with thicker. There is no DAMAGE per se. Every car or truck manual I ever owned before my Honda suggested thin for cold, thick for hot. I am not anti thin, it just isn't optimal where I live. I wish you could understand that!


Thanks for hearing me out. Thats all for me here, thanks.


You may come or go as you please. Either way, it is of no consequence to me. Live by our rules, and you are welcome to disagree with anyone as long and as far as you wish.

But let's face it, now you're splitting hairs. If car A "lasts" only 265k miles, and car B (same type, right) lasts 300k miles, well then "something" must have happened to A to cause it to die an earlier death. Call it "damage", call it "wear", or call it whatever you want. You are trying to lay the difference at the feet of the 20 wt oil that might have been used in car A, AND you're suggesting that B lived longer because it was lubricated with thicker oil. I respectfully disagree.

Why don't you spend some time looking at the twenty (coincidence not intended) UOA I posted which ALL suggest that 20 wt oils do the job just fine.

Originally Posted By: gfh
I am not anti thin, it just isn't optimal where I live. I wish you could understand that!

Sir, I get that. I respectfully submit that is simply not correct. We've seen legions of vehicles run in very hot climates that end up thriving, not just surviving, on 20 wt oils. Even in very, very hot climates. Turning it around, I don't think you're going to harm your car using a 30 wt oil, but again, I no longer see the point. The 20s do as well or better, and cost you less gas in the process.

For the record, when I joined here, I too was devoutly suspicious of 20 wt oils. But having examined reams of data over the last five years, I now have to conclude that the 20s are actually "optimum" for vehicles spec-ing them.

That said, this is, fer cryin' out loud, a DISCUSSION board. Feel free to prove me wrong -- if you can!

What about performance engines or those of European origin that specify a heavier oil?

Ford for example, calls for 5w20 in the Mustang GT, but 5w50 in its Supercharged brother, the GT500........

 

[SAJEFFC]

I agree. Seems a little rough with the members for a mod to me.