Another oil question

[ADFD1]

Hello, My first post here but I am a long time viewer. I find the site entertaining at times, and very informative!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks admin for allowing me to join.

I've used the search read 100's of posts of 20 weight oil vs 30 weight oil etc. I've read about CAFE, and a lot of opinions for and against the thick vs thin oil.

Now my question: Why would an engine from 2005 that called for a 5w30 oil use a 5W-20 oil in 2007? I went so far as to see if they redesigned the engine, used a different pump, or crank, and all I could find was a different PCV valve or an EGR upgrade.

Does the engine builder think that the 5W-20 oil is now better? Is it CAFE? Are they trying to boost 5W-20 oil sales? I would like to think the mfg has my best interests at heart?

Any engineers or oil experts that can answer this?

 

[KW]

The difference between most XW20's and XW30's is very thin. One can be used in place of the other with no problem. CAFE does have a hand in it I believe but again they are very close to one another.

I'm not an engineer but I do drink beer while surfing the net most afternoons.

 

[ADFD1]

Thanks, I sip vodka while surfing the www. I found it interesting that without any engine mods an oil spec can change. I thought something was fishy, or the 20 weight oils were the new real deal.................

 

[KW]

The 20's are just a little thinner than the 30's some are very close. I believe it is a trend the squeeze another mile or two a gallon out of a fleet average. The 20's do seem to be working very well in most applications. I have played with the idea of trying it in my Cobalt to see how it likes it.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

My switch to 20 weight in my S-10 4.3 engine produced a smoother running engine with better gas mileage. But the downside scared the beegeevers out of me. The magnetic oil drain plug was overloaded with metal shavings using Quaker State Synthetic for 5K. I never had metal shavings prior with 5w30 and haven't had any shavings since the switch back to 5w30.

 

[ADFD1]

Wow that would scare me too. I'm still trying to figure out how no changes in a engine, but the oil spec changed.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
My switch to 20 weight in my S-10 4.3 engine produced a smoother running engine with better gas mileage. But the downside scared the beegeevers out of me. The magnetic oil drain plug was overloaded with metal shavings using Quaker State Synthetic for 5K. I never had metal shavings prior with 5w30 and haven't had any shavings since the switch back to 5w30.


I use oil extractor to suck out the oil from dipstick tube, so that I have no idea if my car has metal shavings in the oil pan or not, I had Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 last year and didn't do UOA for it.

I have Mobil 1 0W20 in '00 MB E430 in place of recommended Mobil 1 0W40. The engine is much quieter with thinner oil and MPG went up too.

 

[demarpaint]

Well it could be the 20 grade oil cleaned things up and the iron collected on the magnet? I think I would be scared too if I saw that.

 

[Peter_Pan]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR


I use oil extractor to suck out the oil from dipstick tube, so that I have no idea if my car has metal shavings in the oil pan or not, I had Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 last year and didn't do UOA for it.

I have Mobil 1 0W20 in '00 MB E430 in place of recommended Mobil 1 0W40. The engine is much quieter with thinner oil and MPG went up too.


Wow, a 5W-20 in a Merc in California summers? I'd be extremely careful there. Even in my 5W-20 specced Lancer the manual clearly indicates 10w30 is preferred for temps over 100 F and we easily hit that in summer here.

I never run anything other than Mobil 1 or Synpower 0W-40 in my Merc. These German engines crave the heavier weight.

BTW, you do realize using that suction device will probably leave quiet a bit of used oil in your pan? It can never get as much oil out as you would draining from the downside.

 

[dwendt44]

After reading up on 20 weight oils, I am no longer bad mouthing them.
I did switch to 0w30 in my auto. First just the winter oil fill, but I'm going to stay with that wieght once my stash is drawn down.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/aehaas/

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Peter_Pan

Wow, a 5W-20 in a Merc in California summers? I'd be extremely careful there. Even in my 5W-20 specced Lancer the manual clearly indicates 10w30 is preferred for temps over 100 F and we easily hit that in summer here.

I never run anything other than Mobil 1 or Synpower 0W-40 in my Merc. These German engines crave the heavier weight.

BTW, you do realize using that suction device will probably leave quiet a bit of used oil in your pan? It can never get as much oil out as you would draining from the downside.


Actually, I had Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 last summer and went to Vegas on July 04 weekend, got stuck at Death Valley for 3 hours with ambient temperature about 120F, engine did not overheated with air conditioning on full blast.

My E430 had Mobil 1 0W40 the first 8 years, I had Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 I bought on sale and tried it to see if the engine would quiet down and it did.

Before I change oil I always check the oil level on the dipstick, measure the drained oil and it always 8 quarts, pour in the new 8 quarts and the oil level on dipstick is exactly as before oil change. MB design the dipstick tube to suck the oil with it, that is the same method used by dealers. Many on MB forums tried both ways and found that the vacuum method is as good as drain bolt if not better in term of remove old oil from the engine.

Using extractor to change oil in MB is so convenience, because the cartridge oil filter is on top of the engine so that you never have to get under car and no change to strip the drain bolt.

 

[Peter_Pan]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR


Actually, I had Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 last summer and went to Vegas on July 04 weekend, got stuck at Death Valley for 3 hours with ambient temperature about 120F, engine did not overheated with air conditioning on full blast.

My E430 had Mobil 1 0W40 the first 8 years, I had Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 I bought on sale and tried it to see if the engine would quiet down and it did.

Before I change oil I always check the oil level on the dipstick, measure the drained oil and it always 8 quarts, pour in the new 8 quarts and the oil level on dipstick is exactly as before oil change. MB design the dipstick tube to suck the oil with it, that is the same method used by dealers. Many on MB forums tried both ways and found that the vacuum method is as good as drain bolt if not better in term of remove old oil from the engine.

Using extractor to change oil in MB is so convenience, because the cartridge oil filter is on top of the engine so that you never have to get under car and no change to strip the drain bolt.


Man, you've got nerves of steel! I could never ever even dare put the lancer through that kind of temperatures with a 20 oil, let alone the Merc. Have you ever done a used oil analysis on this engine? It'd be interesting to see the change with the 20 weight. But I guess you've built up my confidence in the 5W-20. I'm currently only using from November to April in the Lancer and I switch to 10w30 for the other half of the year during summer months. Maybe this year I'll try to stick with 5W-20 all year!

I know that some MB dealers in Germany use the dip stick vacuum but I thought their equipment was more powerful and created a better vacuum than what's generally available to the public. I admit it would be a lot more easier to get it down from the topside but I stick to the use of drain plug.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Does the engine builder think that the 5W-20 oil is now better? Is it CAFE? Are they trying to boost 5W-20 oil sales? I would like to think the mfg has my best interests at heart?


Most engine builders never had to worry about it to begin with. 5w30 oils, that have been with us since the later 70's, typically sheared to a 20 grade after a few miles (YMMV). Anyone doing a typical 3k OCI endured (probably) half of it using a 20 weight. Engines appeared to do just fine on it. There was no motivation to make 20 grade multivisc oils ..nor any reason to worry about them either ..generally speaking.

Ford decided to tweak the CAFE standards to allow them to sell more gas guzzlers.

We spend a whole lot of bandwidth on this topic. When people say "it's all about CAFE" ..I keep hearing my misbehaving son complain that my well behaving daughter only did it to gain my favor. I responded with "what's wrong with that?".

That is, I keep looking for a downside to it. "Blame" it on CAFE is it makes you feel better

 

[tropic]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
My switch to 20 weight in my S-10 4.3 engine produced a smoother running engine with better gas mileage. But the downside scared the beegeevers out of me. The magnetic oil drain plug was overloaded with metal shavings using Quaker State Synthetic for 5K. I never had metal shavings prior with 5w30 and haven't had any shavings since the switch back to 5w30.


Now that's just plain disconcerting.

Note to self: never ever make fun of scoobie's 5w-20/5w30 home brew.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: ADFD1
Hello, My first post here

Originally Posted By: ADFD1
Why would an engine from 2005 that called for a 5w30 oil use a 5W-20 oil in 2007?

I can't speak for your specific car manufacturer, but you can be sure that CAFE fines weigh heavily on their minds.


Originally Posted By: ADFD1
I would like to think the mfg has my best interests at heart?

Good one!

Tom NJ

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: ADFD1
I've used the search read 100's of posts of 20 weight oil vs 30 weight oil etc. I've read about CAFE, and a lot of opinions for and against the thick vs thin oil.

Now my question: Why would an engine from 2005 that called for a 5w30 oil use a 5W-20 oil in 2007? I went so far as to see if they redesigned the engine, used a different pump, or crank, and all I could find was a different PCV valve or an EGR upgrade.

Does the engine builder think that the 5W-20 oil is now better? Is it CAFE? Are they trying to boost 5W-20 oil sales? I would like to think the mfg has my best interests at heart?


Looked in the manual of a 2008 Toyota 2.7L 4 cyl today, and it recommended 0w30 through to 20W-50. 20W-50 was apparently good down to -7C.

 

[toyotaguy]

Last time I went to the Toyota dealership where I purchased the 09 toyota corolla. The service dept said that Toyota says its ok for them to use 5w30 in the cars that call for 0w20 or 5w20.

 

[ADFD1]

Originally Posted By: dwendt44
After reading up on 20 weight oils, I am no longer bad mouthing them.
I did switch to 0w30 in my auto. First just the winter oil fill, but I'm going to stay with that wieght once my stash is drawn down.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/aehaas/


Well thanks for all the replies. Dr. Haas has some interesting articles, and gives strong reasons for using 20 grade oils.

I do have one question: Does oil compress? I know water doesn't compress at all. But I do recall hearing that oil compresses, any truth to that? Because if it does then it could allow metal parts to contact one another???? Then something thicker might be better?

This stuff is interesting. It would be interesting to read a Tribologist (sp) view on the thick vs thin battle.

 

[toyotaguy]

In fact if I recall the conversation correctly. The service dept at Toyota said that I could use 5w30 after 5000 miles. I assume they wanted the car broke in on 5w20

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: toyotaguy
In fact if I recall the conversation correctly. The service dept at Toyota said that I could use 5w30 after 5000 miles. I assume they wanted the car broke in on 5w20


No, they wanted to save BIG BUCKS on the lifetime oil change deal that the owner gave the sales dept and the service manager has to "eat" in higher than necessary costs over bulk 5w30 from the lowest bidder.

(nothing wrong with 5w30 in bulk from the lowest bidder).