Given the plethora of oils that meet that specification, it really isn’t anything special.
Another Multiair oil thread
- Thread starter Haakon
- Start date
Agreed. I mixed up though and thought MS13340 was the spec (that’s what the 2.0T calls for) in question, didn’t realize MS6395 was being spec’d in these. I’ve corrected my first post.
At least for my kid's Compass with the MA 2.4, it hasn't mattered. I changed the oil with Havoline HM 5W30 about a week ago and...nothing to report. No lights, no issues. Not that I expected any.
Did you or your kid look into the software updates at the dealer for that oil consumption issue the Compass is having? The video on YouTube about a Cherokee having that issue states that the update worked in the comments. There were several comments from others stating that it actually worked on their vehicles as well.
Our 2.4 MA hasn’t consumed oil for 140,000 miles. It’s so hit or miss with these when it comes to that issue. If you guys don’t do any software updates, I’ll really be curious to see if it changes with the Havoline HM 5w30. (more, less, the same amount of consumption)
No clue. Kind of an odd situation I have with that car. I've got no problem doing the basic maintenance to help her out, but I'm not going out of my way for pretty much anything else. The whole car thing for her was her and her mother's decision, so I stay a certain distance from it. I do believe it uses some oil over the OCI.
Also, our local Dodge dealers are...MEH to be polite, the less time there, the better.
The HM 5W30 was more of a 'that's what I keep on hand' than anything. I'm not going to buy a specific oil for her car. I would normally use the LifeLong 5W30, but it has been awfully scarce trying to get here lately. The HM hits all the specs for all the vehicles except hers, although it does carry that ancient Crysler M-whatever certification, just not the 'correct' weight.
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It is interesting that I don’t seem to see many issues with the Multiair assemblies failing in the US market. I suspect this is down to a cultural tendency in the US to change oil often. The type of oil being less important than simply keeping it clean.
In Australia they specify 15,000kms oil changes and in some European markets they advocate leaving it in there for 30,000kms!!! Nuts…
In Australia they specify 15,000kms oil changes and in some European markets they advocate leaving it in there for 30,000kms!!! Nuts…
Since it's an electro-hydraulic unit, I suppose it's all about keeping the oil above a minimum viscosity and level, clean and, of course, foam/bubble free.
Nothing so fussy about, any modern oil with the right viscosity grade and Fiat spec will do.
Since the oil looses its viscosity along the OCI (shear, dilution), changing it often is one of the things that helps "staying in grade". Keep an eye on the dipstick level also, to keep your MultiAir unit happy.
I think they updated the Multiair unit in 2012, a lot less failures reported after 2013 (my Alfa is an MK2 2014); they also cut down the recommended OCI in Europe, from 30 000 km to 15 000 (2015 IIRC). Very few failing afterwards, AFAIK.
The Multiair units arrived on US market later than in Europe, so they must be the updated, trouble free version.
One possible explanation for the Selenia hype in Europe: AFAIK, Selenia had a privileged relationship with Fiat, making tailor made lubes for their engines, according to Fiat's technical specs.
On Selenia's TDS' you can find "FIAT contractual technical reference No...xxxx" or "Abarth approval xxxxx"
Other oils' TDS only mention "suitable for/ meets and exceeds" Fiat xxxxx approval "
http://alfaromeo.mopar.eu/alfaromeo/ie-en/Pages/parts/oil_functional-fluids.aspx
http://fiat.mopar.eu/fiat/me/en/parts/oil-functional-fluids
Those "exclusive" " Contractual Technical References " are not public, so there's no easy answer to your original question.
But they might explain why some Alfa/Fiat/Abarth owners favor Selenia's products.
There are quite a few Fiat specs related to Multiair engines , according to markets, engines and versions, but they cover non Multiair engines too.
For example, FIAT 955535-S2 (mid SAPS) and FIAT 955535-Z2 (FullSAPS) are very common for the Xw-40 grades in the Fiat world, even before the Multiair's arrival.
That, and the fact that dealers use a wide variety of non Selenia lubes as long as they carry the right spec ( I never had Selenia at dealers within the 5 years warranty, had Shell and Yacco oils in France) , suggests that the Multiair unit is not asking for some special oil. Just stay-in-grade, stay above minimum level...and the right Fiat spec for your engine (as a whole) on a given market.
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95,000 miles on my 1.4 turbo multi air engine under the hood of a Jeep Renegade. The book calls for 5w-40 s so that’s what I use. Castrol most of the time interspersed with Valvoline, Liquimoly, and Pennzoil. Oil & filter every 5000 miles. Engine burns zero oil, gets 28 mpg and runs great overall. I’m probably throwing away good oil with the frequent changes but I get gun shy about turbo bearings. My bottom line? Use what you want but keep it clean with regular maintenance. Best Wishes.Because they’re always funSo - question is what is it about a Fiat spec oil for Multiair engines that the Multiair system needs?
Best I have heard is it needs a good anti foaming additive pack so there is no cavitation behind the plungers in the Multiair system.
There is a lot of mythology around Selenia oil for these in Europe, but in the US it’s Pennzoil Platinum Euro which I understand is rebadged She’ll Helix Ultra.
Any thoughts on the anti foaming idea?
That’s the same engine as in my Alfa. And about my 7500km oil and filter change using Shell Helix Ultra (rebadged as Pennzoil Platinum Euro in the US market) and Purflux filter (OEM supplier to Alfa Romeo in Europe).
I’m only 28,000 kms in from new, but so far so good.
That's the safest approach. I go a bit longer, almost double, using thicker -40s that take longer do dilute to a lower grade.
In the first years under warranty, with some "thin side" 5w40 at dealer's ( kin. viscosity 100°C around 13,1 cSt, IIRC) , the engine became a bit "rough" and noisier (especialy at higher RPM) after 7500km or so... for me it was a sign that the viscosity went down so time to change oil.
Passing on to an 14,3cSt 5w40 (another dealer's oil change) was a silky revelation
that's when I really understood things, seeing how viscosity goes down on the most UOAs I saw posted on forums.
Then I used to change it every 11-13000 km myself, using a thick 5w40 ( Selenia Sport Power, kinematic viscosity at 100°C :15,2 cSt) , for 3 years or so. I always felt it could go longer with that thick stuff, but holydays were scarce and I hate changing oil myself in a haste, so I did it according to my spare time rather than kms . It doesn't have the right spec for the MultiAir btw (it's for the more potent 1.8TBi with direct injection, so more dilution), but I felt confident enough and took the risk.
IMO, it simply takes a lot longer to dilute down to a lower grade, when you start from a higher point (15,2 cSt vs 13,1cSt) - let's keep it simple and not mention the base oil differences here...
Recently I passed on to a 0w40 (Mobil1 ESP X3), just to cure the cold start "kangaroo" behaviour , but that's another story. This one has a kinematic viscosity at 100°C of 14,1 cSt , in the mid "-40" range, so I might change it a bit sooner, 10k maybe; so far, 6500km and still going smooth.
89000km in 8 years, no oil consumption , no mechanical issues, good fuel economy. Spark plugs (changed every 30k according to the manual) are clean. I still go to dealer's for important OE parts change (like belts and plugs).
Never did an UOA, just saw that the viscosity goes down in most of the UOAs, then I connected the dots.
As soon as I understood what the hths, kinematic viscosity 100°C, Ccs/MRV, Noack and TBN mean in real life, oil choice became much easier.
When I can feel that the engine becomes a bit noisier and rough constantly, for me the oil viscosity hit the lower mark, so it's time for fresh oil. Next time with the same oil I change a bit sooner, maybe.
I know it's old style, empirical and crude, but I don't have the time to overthink it anymore nor to change it too often. Also, no info on the TBN left, I know. There are more precise ways to tell a safe OCI, but I'm too lazy (or less into oils) lately. Don't do like I do.
In the first years under warranty, with some "thin side" 5w40 at dealer's ( kin. viscosity 100°C around 13,1 cSt, IIRC) , the engine became a bit "rough" and noisier (especialy at higher RPM) after 7500km or so... for me it was a sign that the viscosity went down so time to change oil.
Passing on to an 14,3cSt 5w40 (another dealer's oil change) was a silky revelation
that's when I really understood things, seeing how viscosity goes down on the most UOAs I saw posted on forums.Then I used to change it every 11-13000 km myself, using a thick 5w40 ( Selenia Sport Power, kinematic viscosity at 100°C :15,2 cSt) , for 3 years or so. I always felt it could go longer with that thick stuff, but holydays were scarce and I hate changing oil myself in a haste, so I did it according to my spare time rather than kms . It doesn't have the right spec for the MultiAir btw (it's for the more potent 1.8TBi with direct injection, so more dilution), but I felt confident enough and took the risk.
IMO, it simply takes a lot longer to dilute down to a lower grade, when you start from a higher point (15,2 cSt vs 13,1cSt) - let's keep it simple and not mention the base oil differences here...
Recently I passed on to a 0w40 (Mobil1 ESP X3), just to cure the cold start "kangaroo" behaviour , but that's another story. This one has a kinematic viscosity at 100°C of 14,1 cSt , in the mid "-40" range, so I might change it a bit sooner, 10k maybe; so far, 6500km and still going smooth.
89000km in 8 years, no oil consumption , no mechanical issues, good fuel economy. Spark plugs (changed every 30k according to the manual) are clean. I still go to dealer's for important OE parts change (like belts and plugs).
Never did an UOA, just saw that the viscosity goes down in most of the UOAs, then I connected the dots.
As soon as I understood what the hths, kinematic viscosity 100°C, Ccs/MRV, Noack and TBN mean in real life, oil choice became much easier.
When I can feel that the engine becomes a bit noisier and rough constantly, for me the oil viscosity hit the lower mark, so it's time for fresh oil. Next time with the same oil I change a bit sooner, maybe.
I know it's old style, empirical and crude, but I don't have the time to overthink it anymore nor to change it too often. Also, no info on the TBN left, I know. There are more precise ways to tell a safe OCI, but I'm too lazy (or less into oils) lately. Don't do like I do.
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So you are finding the higher viscosity has no adverse affect on the proper functioning of the multi-air?
Alfa's in the US are recommended for 0w30 with an HTHS of only about 3.0.
Alfa's in the US are recommended for 0w30 with an HTHS of only about 3.0.
As I red on the issue, the too low viscosity or the low oil level is really troublesome, never heard of high viscosity issues.
In Europe, for Giulietta 1.4 Multiair:
MK1 2010 Euro5 asks for 5w40
MK2 sept 2013: same engine code, but the manual says 0w30 . 'cause Euro6 (hmmmm)
MK3 2015 or 2016: new engine code, Euro6 , 0w30
Mine is a 2014 MK2 euro6... but no dealer ever bothered with 0w30, I always had 5w40 under warranty. And I think they were right, given the same engine code.
I stayed with 5w40, never went to 5w50. The engine was launched on the market with 5w40, until Euro6 demands came along, so I stay in the "-40" area
So I can't speak of higher viscosity class (at 100°C), never risked going higher at -50 or -60
But within the -40 class, there are thinner or thicker oils (12,5 to 16.3 cSt)
The only adverse effect of the high viscosity (within the manuals' limits) is the "kangaroo", some judder appearing for 2-3 minutes at cold start-up, if one starts rolling immediately; after that it's gone for the whole day. Waiting 2-3 minutes or accelerating a few seconds before rolling off avoids the judder.
After eliminating all other causes, I suppose that the cold, very viscous oil, makes the Multiair a little bit herratic at first, until the oil starts warming a little and flowing better (the module sends its signals via an oil "column", IRC)
It's just a peculiarity, not a real issue. One gets used to it. 2-3 minutes in a winter morning means buckling up, setting up Waze, defrosting... meanwhile the oil starts flowing right and there's no kangaroo judder.
My interest on the matter was mostly theoretical.
Going to 0w40 greatly improved things, the cold start judder is almost gone, now I can roll out almost immediately without juddering the first 2 minutes.
In Europe, for Giulietta 1.4 Multiair:
MK1 2010 Euro5 asks for 5w40
MK2 sept 2013: same engine code, but the manual says 0w30 . 'cause Euro6 (hmmmm)
MK3 2015 or 2016: new engine code, Euro6 , 0w30
Mine is a 2014 MK2 euro6... but no dealer ever bothered with 0w30, I always had 5w40 under warranty. And I think they were right, given the same engine code.
I stayed with 5w40, never went to 5w50. The engine was launched on the market with 5w40, until Euro6 demands came along, so I stay in the "-40" area
So I can't speak of higher viscosity class (at 100°C), never risked going higher at -50 or -60
But within the -40 class, there are thinner or thicker oils (12,5 to 16.3 cSt)
The only adverse effect of the high viscosity (within the manuals' limits) is the "kangaroo", some judder appearing for 2-3 minutes at cold start-up, if one starts rolling immediately; after that it's gone for the whole day. Waiting 2-3 minutes or accelerating a few seconds before rolling off avoids the judder.
After eliminating all other causes, I suppose that the cold, very viscous oil, makes the Multiair a little bit herratic at first, until the oil starts warming a little and flowing better (the module sends its signals via an oil "column", IRC)
It's just a peculiarity, not a real issue. One gets used to it. 2-3 minutes in a winter morning means buckling up, setting up Waze, defrosting... meanwhile the oil starts flowing right and there's no kangaroo judder.
My interest on the matter was mostly theoretical.
Going to 0w40 greatly improved things, the cold start judder is almost gone, now I can roll out almost immediately without juddering the first 2 minutes.
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Sample size of one, but on a 2.4 MA that recommends 0W20, no. 5W30 is working just fine.
overfill will create foaming risk.
Exactly always wondered that same thing.
I see very few, almost no issues with the MA setup , in either the 1.4 or 2.4. They don't seem to be bothered much but what oil is used.
