another example of societal norms ignored

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We have taken our kids flying as early as two months old. Never had issues. We have taken our kids overseas.

If I were that parent, I'd be embarrassed. If my kid started crying when getting on, I'm not sure I'd know upfront that it would continue eight hours.

Unfortunately you can't just stop and force the kid off over the ocean.

This is a no win situation. Had they made the parent and child get off, then there would be a bad news story about a young kid forced off a plane due to crying. Unfortunately, this was not a kid crying. This was a kid shouting and screaming, ina very bad way.

And 8 hours?!? Come on parents. It is beyond rude to inflict those behaviors on a large number of strangers, cramped together for such a long time. I don't know if the right answer is a dose of Benadryl, more discipline, etc., again, no win situation. Fortunately we trained our kids to settle and communicate and breathe, and we dont suffer from bad allergies or other sorts of disorders. I'd have worked with the doctor on the best COA if that were the case... and considered NOT traveling if it bothered the kid that much... but as a start, you do have to give the parents some level of consideration that they "didn't know" their kid would act this way. Whether or not that was the truth is TBD I guess.

I fly a lot, and am much more bothered when someone nearby flatuates, than if a baby cries for a while. But again this isn't a kid in pain and crying. I can see being VERY mad if this were the eastbound red eye flight. A westbound from Europe, ehh., not as big a deal, but that is NASTY screaming.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Just spank that brat, problem solved.


thumbsup2.gif
Or a swift kick in the arse.


Do you mean for the second linked story? The adult passenger that threatened the flight attendant?

Her nastiness was certainly deserving of corporal punishment....

And her employer has placed her on leave, now that social media has identified her.

I had a passenger last month who was throwing his bags around, being nasty to one of my crew. The flight attendant was all of 5’2” and this guy wasn’t happy that he had to place his bags a few rows behind his seat. He was a frequent flier. The gate agent came to me in the cockpit, and told me that he was nasty to her as well.

I grabbed my hat and jacket (unambiguous attire. I’m not a flight attendant) and went back to speak with him.

I asked him “what seems to be the problem?” (In my very best “Dad isn’t happy” voice...ask my kids about that...).

He whirled around, started to speak, looked me up and down, then bit his tongue.

Good choice.

I asked if there was a problem with his seat, a problem with his bag storage. Anything else he would like to bring to my attention. I asked if he thought he would be able to remain calm for the rest of the flight.

I then asked the flight attendant, to whom he had been nasty, how she felt about him flying. She said she was fine with it.

IF this guy had uttered something like, “thanks, Tabitha, you may not have a job tomorrow” - the exact words of the passenger in the story above, I would not have asked what the problem was, it would have been something closer to: “Sir, please gather your bags and come with me”.

It’s childish to vent your frustration on people who didn’t create your problem. Do it on my airplane, and you’ve got my attention.

Threaten one of my crew?

You’re not going anywhere.

I’ve had folks try to intimidate me...”what’s your name!!?” Is usually the first step. I wear my ID so it’s plainly visible, so it’s a formulaic escalation on their part.

My usual response to that escalation question, “It’s Captain XXX”. Which often brings them up short. Yes, I am the guy in charge of this flight, yes, I am trying to determine what to do with you and yes, the next few moments of your behavior are critical in that determination.

I was totally with the crew in the case of the woman who threatened “Tabitha” the FA.

That [censored] crossed the line with the threat.
 
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Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Just spank that brat, problem solved.


Do you get a thrill at the thought of torturing a three year old?
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Just spank that brat, problem solved.


Do you get a thrill at the thought of torturing a three year old?


Not the same thing.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Just spank that brat, problem solved.


Do you get a thrill at the thought of torturing a three year old?



Lol. So now spanking is "torture?" It only takes a single, slight whack for a parent to get their kid in line. But, no doubt any lawyers or DSS employees on that plane would have had the parent(s) up on "child abuse" charges. In this situation, it was the kid and parent(s) holding an entire plane load of passengers hostage to mental torture.
 
There will be plenty said about bad behavior … so I’ll make a different point:

I travel plenty and select slower connections ~ then board early and in the front cabin … one backpack onboard and one big suitcase underneath in cargo. Gone for weeks like that …
Being on the jet early ~ I get to watch most of the parade … What people expect to bring on the plane is insane … then I watch them start trouble when it does not fit and they are in the last 5% to waddle past …
The airlines already adjusted (please don’t toss in your one off MD80 trip) by paying for oversized bins in planes that will accommodate … some being designed for end and sideways (approved) carry on bags ...
But if people don’t self regulate (minimum kit) ~ the pendulum will swing again where reasonable travellers get hit the hardest by the extreme types … that’s how the cookie crumbles …
 
dnewton3- what societal norms? We seem to have given them up. I read news stories of people having sex on crowded airplanes, parents killing their children, kids shooting up schools, and people beating each other up over political views. Kids grow up with no limits, getting participation trophies, no consequences. Of course, when you turn 18, you're supposed to suddenly be a responsible adult. When I was a kid, most of the kids I knew were spanked at home. Spanking isn't the point, consistent discipline is. The kids who had consistent behavior limits put on them generally turned out well, and the kids who were abused at home were often bullies. But there weren't any school shootings in those days, and none of the kids I grew up with would have gotten away with 8 hour tantrums. Most of us wouldn't have gotten away with it for 8 seconds.
 
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Just spank that brat, problem solved.


Do you get a thrill at the thought of torturing a three year old?



Lol. So now spanking is "torture?" It only takes a single, slight whack for a parent to get their kid in line. But, no doubt any lawyers or DSS employees on that plane would have had the parent(s) up on "child abuse" charges. In this situation, it was the kid and parent(s) holding an entire plane load of passengers hostage to mental torture.


Yes, a slap on the butt.... NO physical abuse of child.
 
Originally Posted By: Smoky14
"Social Norms" no longer seem to count, today it is make your own norms and let others suffer.


SOOOOO so so so so true!!
 
Several points should be kept in in mind.
First, the source isn't quite as credible as the "National Enquirer."
Second, it would be a rare three year old who could actually rant and scream loudly for eight actual hours, unless actually in need of a rite of exorcism.
Third, the notion that the mother should have gotten off the flight with her toddler is absurd. Nobody flying in the back is on a refundable ticket, re-book options aren't very good these days and she presumably needed to be somewhere on some sort of schedule. Nobody takes a small child on a long journey as a mileage run or on a lark.
Finally, if one expects better company and better conditions on flights, then he is welcomed to pay for one of the forward cabins less likely to be inhabited by budget travelers and their children.
We've gone both ways and while paying for a higher class is painful to my cheapskate nature, the comfort and service are probably worth it on a long flight, especially since the cost will be long forgotten by flight time and the pain of clicking the higher cost fare fades quickly.
In short, many of us forget that we were once small children as well and also seem blissfully ignorant of the efforts this mother no doubt made to calm her toddler. I doubt that she enjoyed the tantrum either.
 
“First, the source isn't quite as credible as the "National Enquirer."

Credible like CNN or MSNBC you mean? Fake news and petulant reporters.


I have flown business as well and the spoiled brats are up there as well. Teenage kids flying on rich daddies miles with no manners or respect. Or perhaps celebrities who think the world revolves around them.
 
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Just spank that brat, problem solved.


Do you get a thrill at the thought of torturing a three year old?



Lol. So now spanking is "torture?" It only takes a single, slight whack for a parent to get their kid in line. But, no doubt any lawyers or DSS employees on that plane would have had the parent(s) up on "child abuse" charges. In this situation, it was the kid and parent(s) holding an entire plane load of passengers hostage to mental torture.


^^ this.

"torturing" -- that's hilarious.makes as much sense as saying almost all cops are bad, and some should be crucified. this is classic,funny, drama queen stuff.
'gotta love bitog.
 
You just have to prepare yourself to fly - you're giving up all control. You're not in your car and can take the next exit ramp or stop when you want. There will be the crying baby, misbehaved kid and chatty person sitting next to you. A couple glasses of wine, ear buds and I can tune out almost everything except the FARTER! There is one on every flight, and you better hope he isn't sitting near you, dropping bombs the entire flight.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
“First, the source isn't quite as credible as the "National Enquirer."

Credible like CNN or MSNBC you mean? Fake news and petulant reporters.


I have flown business as well and the spoiled brats are up there as well. Teenage kids flying on rich daddies miles with no manners or respect. Or perhaps celebrities who think the world revolves around them.



No, I meant credible like a real news outlet with real reporters, not simple minded news readers.
If you've had trouble with spoiled brats in biz, then I'd say you're flying the wrong airline on the wrong routes.
The FAs in that service class are expected to put a halt to any obnoxious behavior with a quickness and if they can't, the lead FA or purser will.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: PimTac
“First, the source isn't quite as credible as the "National Enquirer."

Credible like CNN or MSNBC you mean? Fake news and petulant reporters.


I have flown business as well and the spoiled brats are up there as well. Teenage kids flying on rich daddies miles with no manners or respect. Or perhaps celebrities who think the world revolves around them.



No, I meant credible like a real news outlet with real reporters, not simple minded news readers.
If you've had trouble with spoiled brats in biz, then I'd say you're flying the wrong airline on the wrong routes.
The FAs in that service class are expected to put a halt to any obnoxious behavior with a quickness and if they can't, the lead FA or purser will.


Haven't had any problems in biz or first class with kids, but I was on one first class flight and a guy that had "Concierge Key" status was giving the FA a hard time because we were stuck on the tarmac. I was just shaking my head...
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: PimTac
“First, the source isn't quite as credible as the "National Enquirer."

Credible like CNN or MSNBC you mean? Fake news and petulant reporters.


I have flown business as well and the spoiled brats are up there as well. Teenage kids flying on rich daddies miles with no manners or respect. Or perhaps celebrities who think the world revolves around them.





No, I meant credible like a real news outlet with real reporters, not simple minded news readers.
If you've had trouble with spoiled brats in biz, then I'd say you're flying the wrong airline on the wrong routes.
The FAs in that service class are expected to put a halt to any obnoxious behavior with a quickness and if they can't, the lead FA or purser will.




On certain Asian carriers they know who their passengers are. Spoiled brats of the owner of a huge company are allowed to be brats. It’s a class thing in Asia unfortunately. In my case this was a overnight from Hong Kong to San Francisco and these kids played video games, chatted and left lights on the entire trip. One on the aisle took his shoes and socks off.

Who knows? These may have been the airline ceo sons. Likely on their way back to the states for college. It does happen and it can happen on any airline with miles programs etc.

My routine is to don the noise cancelling headphones and get some sleep. On these long 10-12 and up to 15 hour flights, some pain medication for my back helps greatly.

You are correct that the cheaper the fares, the more chances of ill mannered passengers.
 
8 hour tantrum?
crazy.gif
... they should have asked them to control the devil child and gave them 8 minutes or they can get off and take another flight later when he's calmed down.
 
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