Andretti Global and GM partner for Formula 1 bid: Andretti Cadillac Racing

M

MrHorspwer

Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
2,353
Location
Michigan
As of earlier this week, the FIA is officially looking at expanding the F1 grid.

Over the past year, there has been some chatter about new teams. Andretti, Audi (done deal, working with Sauber after Alfa exits), and Porsche have been the center of this discussion. The addition of Cadillac with Andretti is a new twist.

racer.com

Andretti Global partners with GM on proposed Andretti Cadillac Racing F1 entry

Andretti Global and General Motors (GM) have announced their intention to partner on a potential Formula 1 entry following the FIA’s announcement it may invite Expressions of Interest from new team…
racer.com racer.com

Formula 1 (Liberty Media, really) desperately wants another American team to expand the market. Next year will finally have an American driver and there will be three races on the schedule in the US. Adding teams involves a lot of politicking with the other teams. It will be curious to see where this ends up.
 
Last edited:
It'll never happen because King Toto Wolfe believes it will dilute the earnings potential of the other teams.

I've been watching F1 since the late '60s. For decades there were 24 teams, even privateers, most notably Ken Tyrrell. But with the ridiculous complexity of today's obese cars, cars with longer wheelbases than a Chevrolet Suburban, it's a game only for deep pocketed European manufactures. Audi will be the next team to join their private club, a club that has a $200M entry fee.

Scott
 
Last edited:
It would be cheaper and less painful to light a dump truck full of cash on fire and toast some marshmallows over it.

He'd be FAR better off buying an established team and starting from there. Modern F1 is far too cost-prohibitive and talent-exclusive to have any kind of success starting from scratch. The dream of new blood coming in and being successful by doing something different is exactly that, a dream. Even with Elon Musk money, you couldn't create a new team and hope for top five finishes within five years because there just isn't enough experienced engineering and management talent to go around. The days of small teams/manufacturers being successful in F1 are long over, not with hybrid technology the way it is now.

Andretti's nuts, but more power to him I guess.
 
slo town said:
I read a recent story where Norbert Haug sharply criticized German fans for not being more interested in F1. Talk about being out of touch. The fact is people don't like today's version of the sport.

Scott
Click to expand...
Very true. People generally don't like modern F1, and people generally don't like one or two teams dominating it. I barely watch the races now, usually just fast-forwarding through them looking for accidents and whatnot.

Haug should realize that Mercedes' (previous) dominance, something he helped birth, is not helping his cause at all.
 
Was reading a story in Autosport this morning about George Russell saying today's F1 cars are getting so heavy they are becoming dangerous.

For 2022 the minimum weight was 798kg, or 1,759 pounds. In the '70s the minimum weight was 600kg, or 1,323 pounds. Today's cars are overweight pigs - that sound like an econobox with a resonator delete.

Go to 1:52 in this video. This sounds like a race car!

Scott

 
It is because auto sport became prohibitively expensive on personal level too. People can’t identify anymore with auto sport as they can’t replicate some of it in their personal lives.
I am really not sure how would GM and F1 work? i just can’t see how GM has money for this, and even if they do, what is ROI?
 
slo town said:
Was reading a story in Autosport this morning about George Russell saying today's F1 cars are getting so heavy they are becoming dangerous.
Click to expand...

Another crazy number about how large a modern F1 car has become:

2022 Formula 1 wheelbase - 360(ish)cm

2022 Cadillac Escalade ESV (the long one) wheelbase - 341cm

The race car that (maybe) will wear the Cadillac name is longer than their longest SUV.
 
slo town said:
It'll never happen because King Toto Wolfe believes it will dilute the earnings potential of the other teams.

I've been watching F1 since the late '60s. For decades there were 24 teams, even privateers, most notably Ken Tyrrell. But with the ridiculous complexity of today's obese cars, cars with longer wheelbases than a Chevrolet Suburban, it's a game only for deep pocketed European manufactures. Audi will be the next team to join their private club, a club that has a $200M entry fee.

Scott
Click to expand...
Wolf is with Mercedes, yes?
Could you briefly explain what you mean b the $200M entry fee?
Thanks!
 
slo town said:
Was reading a story in Autosport this morning about George Russell saying today's F1 cars are getting so heavy they are becoming dangerous.

For 2022 the minimum weight was 798kg, or 1,759 pounds.
Click to expand...
The Ferrari that won the 1949 24 hours of LeMan, a 2-seater that was ostensibly a street car, weighed less than that by a substantial margin. I just found that to be an interesting observation on a few points. BTW, I'm no motor sports expert at all, I just happen to know a few bits of info about that Ferrari.
 
Shel_B said:
Wolf is with Mercedes, yes?
Could you briefly explain what you mean b the $200M entry fee?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Any new team wanting to enter Formula 1 must pay $200M that will be shared by the 10 existing entrants. These are the terms within the Concorde Agreement. And 8 of these 10 teams want that $200M increased because they feel the fee is not high enough, Understand, this is a fee simply to enter the series.

In the Concorde Agreement it specifies a maximum of 23 teams (there are 10 now). I've been watching F1 since the late '60s and 12 teams were the norm for decades. The advent of the hybrid era saw that number drop to 10, simply because of the ridiculous complexity and expense of the hybrid power plants.

I'd love to see the day when F1 starts losing teams and needs new ones. And when they ask Andretti to join he either gives them the middle finger or asks their country club for $1B just to think about it.

I actually think that day is coming. F1 is on an unsustainable path. Look at their back and forth globe trotting 2023 schedule. There was no effort to reduce travel costs. F1 calls itself green, but its 2023 schedule makes their claims a farce.

Listen to David Croft of Sky Sports. For several of the 2022 races he made the statement that the races were carbon neutral because people used public transportation to attend. Really? Statements like that make me think the entire F1 circus is on drugs. They think their own farts don't stink.

Scott
 
MrHorspwer said:
Another crazy number about how large a modern F1 car has become:

2022 Formula 1 wheelbase - 360(ish)cm

2022 Cadillac Escalade ESV (the long one) wheelbase - 341cm

The race car that (maybe) will wear the Cadillac name is longer than their longest SUV.
Click to expand...
1993 McLaren MP4/8 wheelbase: 112"

2020 McLaren MCL35 wheelbase: 142"

That's 2.5 feet longer! These things are ridiculous now.

2021 Chevy Suburban wheelbase: 134"!!
 
Last edited:
F1 needs to (sadly) go fully electric to make them less complex and more in-tune with future car trends

-OR-

Go back to high-tech, cleaner-burning ICE-only with renewable low- or no-pollution fuels.

These cars with their modern hybrid drivetrains are way too complex and expensive. Fans want to see exciting, fast, competitive racing. We don't need them to be the epitome of automotive technology anymore because we're all surrounded by high tech everywhere we go now. All the F1 manufacturers complain that it's too expensive. Yeah, well since y'all vote on the rules it's your fault that that's the case. I hate hearing these people complain about costs. Too bad!

That $200 million buy-in is ludicrous. What a Ponzi scheme.
 
Bottom_Feeder said:
1993 McLaren MP4/8 wheelbase: 112"

2020 McLaren MCL35 wheelbase: 142"

That's 2.5 feet longer! These things are ridiculous now.

2021 Chevy Suburban wheelbase: 134"!!
Click to expand...
I would bet that a lot of that added length has to do with driver safety and increased crumple zones before and after the cockpit. We've all seen pictures where the front of these open wheel type machines gets ripped off and the driver's legs are hanging out with one foot front facing front and the other facing backwards. Not a pretty sight.
 
Dave P. said:
I would bet that a lot of that added length has to do with driver safety and increased crumple zones before and after the cockpit.
Click to expand...
Almost certainly it's safety related like you say. It wasn't that long ago when Martin Brundle raced and he tells the story of his feet or leg(s) getting broken from a crash. Certainly don't want to jinx anything but do drivers sustain serious injuries nowadays ? Going to a hospital after a crash has been mainly precautionary anymore. Grosjean did suffer burns in his crash but nothing broken.
 
GM officially registered as a PU manufacturer for F1. The rules require min 4-year notice so this puts the new PU out to 2028. Although the FIA has green lighted Andretti GM team everyone is waiting on F1 to make a decision. If they say "No" it's going to be a huge setback for F1 after years of trying to re-kindle interest in the US.

Press Release
 
BMWTurboDzl said:
If they say "No" it's going to be a huge setback for F1 after years of trying to re-kindle interest in the US.
Click to expand...
Saw some story that the secret plan behind-the-scenes is they reject Andretti but get GM to supply engines (or partner before engines are available) with teams like Williams or Haas but GM has shut that down already.... They say in that press release (presuming it's the same one I saw before) that it's Andretti+GM/Cadillac or nothing.

It seems like the existing teams are sooooo beyond arrogant when it comes to this situation and even the public sentiment, including on the European side of fans, has become a joke. It's just one thing after another that the teams make up to stop this.
 
Hall said:
Saw some story that the secret plan behind-the-scenes is they reject Andretti but get GM to supply engines (or partner before engines are available) with teams like Williams or Haas but GM has shut that down already.... They say in that press release (presuming it's the same one I saw before) that it's Andretti+GM/Cadillac or nothing.

It seems like the existing teams are sooooo beyond arrogant when it comes to this situation and even the public sentiment, including on the European side of fans, has become a joke. It's just one thing after another that the teams make up to stop this.
Click to expand...

With Haas and Williams scrapping for points (points = profit sharing) it makes perfect sense for them to try to court GM w/out Andretti. I wish I knew the exact tie-ups between teams but to me it seems like Alpha Tauri, and Alpha Romeo are under the umbrellas of Red Bull and Ferrari respectively rather than being unique to themselves. They represent 40 percent of potential points recipients.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Andretti Formula 1 Team in 2024
Replies
4
Views
699
SubLGT
Back
Top