Amsoil - why the difference in specs and testing procedures?

Messages
211
Location
Mississauga, ON
I'm really confused about this: I've used the Amsoil 5W-30 Synthetic since day 1 on my 2001 Honda Prelude and I'm very happy with it. People have been recommending the Series 2000 0W-30, but looking at the specs on Amsoil's site, the 5W-30 seems superior (higher kinematic [email protected]*C, lower Noack volatility, better 4-ball wear test, and the same TBN). Here is my dilemma: - Four-ball wear test The spec for the Series 2000 0W-30 is 0.373mm at 150*C, 1800RPM, whereas the 5W-30 is 0.35mm at 75*C, 1200RPM. What gives, why do they have different testing procedures? Which is better? - Noack volatility The Noack volatility for the 0W-30 is [email protected]*C, and for the 5W-30 it is [email protected] an unspecified temperature. Do I assume it is also @250*C? - Cold crank simulator The 0W-30 is [email protected]*C, whereas the [email protected]*C. Why don't they specify the viscosity at the same temperature so one can make an informed decision. -High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity cP The 0W-30 is specified as [email protected] unknown temperature, whereas the 5W-30 is [email protected]*C. Should I assume the 0W-30 was measured at 150*C as well? Maybe someone could shed some light on this?
 

driven2services

Administrator
Messages
0
Isn't the 4-ball test meaningless for crankcase oils?...just good advertising copy? The Cold Cranking Simulator testing is done at different temperature for different viscosities...these are the SAE J3600 specs, which became effective June, 2001: 0W -35°C < 6200 cP viscosity 5W -30°C < 6600 cP 10W -25°C < 7000 cP GM has recently announced that they want the old specs back which required a lower viscosity at these temps. I think the NOACK test has to be 250°C in all cases. The standard HT/HS test, CEC-L-36-A-97, is at 150°C. Save your money. Buy the Amsoil 5W-30 or Mobil 1 0W-30 or 5W-30. Ken
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Messages
21,706
Location
Iowegia - USA
As I recall, the the newer fluids were measured at higher temps, higher loads, and longer test times, so the ASL formula was tested with lower specs. Whether or not one is better than other, only a UOA will really tell. BTW, one reason they may be pushing for a using 0W30 is that it is about $3.00 a quart more than the ASL, unless you're a dealer; I know the prices, since my BIL is a dealer.
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
Ferrari, You can't tell how well an oil is going to hold up by looking at spec sheets. You have to run it in an actual application under the same conditions as what you were previously using. I've tested both ASL, TSO and HDD after 12,000-15,000 miles and this is how they compared: ASL, 5w-30 ...tested after 12,000 miles Viscosity @ 100C, 10.9 Cst ...baseline is 11.7 Cst oxidation, 41% of allowable value nitration, 50% of allowable value TBN, 7.2 TSO, 0w-30, tested after 12,000 miles Vis @ 100C, 11.2 Cst ...baseline is 11.3 Cst oxidation, 24% nitration, 40% TBN, 8.4 Series 3000, 5w-30 ...tested after 15,000 miles Viscosity @ 100C, 12.1 Cst ...baseline is 11.7 Cst oxidation, 20% nitration, 50% TBN, 7.2 I also have data from a number of other vehicles, including VW diesel engines. In all cases the 0w-30 and Series 3000, 5w-30 held up better over long drain intervals then the regular 5w-30 and 10w-30. Wear rates were about the same for all these formulations. Since you live in a cold climate, I'd go with a 0w-30 over a 5w-30 or 10w-30.
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
Ferrari, If you decide to use the S-2000 stuff, it's about fifty cents a quart less if you get it in one gallon - 3.78L - jugs as opposed to quarts ....
 

Ferrari

Thread starter
Messages
211
Location
Mississauga, ON
Thanks for that data. I'm not into extended drains since the car runs rich and I'm a bit worried about fuel dilution, plus I have extended warranty (100,000 miles) and I don't want any problems. Since I'm changing oil every 4,000 miles, I'm trying to find out if the 0W-30 is better for me than the 5W-30 ASL.
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
Ferrari, I just got some of the Series 2000, 0w-30 in for one of my local accounts and it now lists the following specs: ACEA A3/B3/B4 - most stringent European specs VW 502/505 - for VW gas/diesel engines GM 4718-M - spec for the Corvette LT-1 JASO VTW - Japanese valve train wear Also meets factory fill requirements of: Porsche BMW "Longlife" Oil Mercedes, DB 229.3 - the spec for their new engines with the flexible service schedule In other words, this is Amsoils' best gas engine oil. I would actually use this oil with a 6000-7000 mile change interval instead of the regular 5w-30 with a 4000 mile change interval. TooSlick
 

Ferrari

Thread starter
Messages
211
Location
Mississauga, ON
TooSlick, thanks for the info. Does that mean that Amsoil updated their Series 2000 formulation? Is the new 0W-30 better than the one available 1 year ago?
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
Ferrari, Well, I don't think they had to reformulate to meet the API, "SL" classification, if that's what you mean. Amsoil works with Lubrizol to develop most of their additive chemistries, so this change reflects the fact that this chemistry meets the current European specs. I should add that a number of the spec sheets on Amsoils website are out of date - they are very slow in updating these .... The emphasis these days is trying to improve high temp properties, since current generation engines produce more power with fewer cubic inches. They also tend to have smaller sumps and tend to run hotter. So you see Noack Volatility being reduced and more shear stable VI modifiers being used. Mobil is taking the same approach with their Supersyn formulation, BTW. TooSlick
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
Ferrari, I have found that oil consumption is lower with the 0w-30, even though the Noack Volatility is higher than for the 5w-30 and 10w-30. I ran both oils in my Tacoma for 12,000 miles and didn't use any oil with the 0w-30. I just finished running ASL and used about 1/4 of a quart - of course I'm picking nits here. The 0w-30 also looks cleaner on the dipstick after the same number of miles. I think the reason for this is that the 0w-30 degrades more slowly in terms of oxidation and this is reflected in the oil analysis numbers I've seen. When I ran the 0w-30 in my Audi 100 it produced the lowest oil temps and the highest fuel efficiency of all the Amsoil formulations I've used. Compared to the Amsoil 10w-30, I consistently picked up about 3% with the 0w-30, in mixed city/highway driving. This is a multiple tank average using the trip computer and confirmed by my calculations. I use my personal vehicles as testbeds and run every new oil that Amsoil comes out with.
 

Ferrari

Thread starter
Messages
211
Location
Mississauga, ON
TooSlick, do you happen to have the latest specs for both the 5W-30 ASL and the Series 2000 0W-30? Also, in your experience, is the Series 2000 0W-30 more stable at high RPMs and heat than the 5W-30 ASL? The Noack Volatility (according to the website) and the viscosity @100*C is better for the 5W-30 ASL. Does the 0W-30 have a more shear stable film at these high RPMs? Thanks for all the info.
 
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