Amsoil vs. Motorguard

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Jon

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As I see it, the fundamental differences boil down to this: Amsoil element is replaced far less frequently (approx. 1/10) Amsoil element is more expensive (more than 10x?) What else is there? Which filters better? How hard is it to find the *right* side of TP, or, alternately, how much do the motorguard elements cost? Is one design (hoses + canisters + means of controlling flow) superior to the other? The proposed application would be a 2002 Honda Accord V6.
 
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Well, Both bypass filter are best. Depend how willing are you going maintence. TP typically more maintence than the Amsoil bypass filter. Because TP intervial at 3000 miles vs Amsoil filter at 25,000 miles.
 
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I'm more than happy with my MotorGuard bypass. The oil just stays clean. It takes about 2 minutes to change the TP filter. Easy to find the TP Scotts 1000. Fits great. Ralph P Wood answers all questions and is easy to install. [Big Grin]
 
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I wonder which do the best job of filtering oil. I would say to pick an Amsoil for syn oil, Makeup oil $5.00 per Qt. and a Motorguard for petrolium oil, make up oil $1.00 to about $2.00 per qt.
 

mjo

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Well I'm not sure of the quality of Amsoil compared to a solid roll of tp but I got some Scott on sale for 30 cents a roll last week at Kmart. [I dont know]
 

Jon

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So what I'm seeing so far here is a suggestion (can anybody confirm or deny this?) that the Motor Guard filters *better* (at a lower micron level) but because of that and a smaller media size it needs to be changed more often. The V6 Honda already runs mighty clean (at 3500-4000 miles it looks only a little darker than stock) so perhaps I could go 4000+ miles on TP? What about the wrong *size* TP, there was talk of having to cut and/or unroll the rolls. What about the cardboard inside the roll? I have to say I really like the idea that the Amsoil comes with top-notch lines good to 500 psi, top-notch fittings, etc... I would guess that an adapter plate is the way to go on this car. How much do the motorguard branded elements cost?
 

Jon

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quote:
Originally posted by oldman: I don't have to cut the TP rolls to fit in the Motor Guard. Just unroll some of the sheets and put tape supplied and put it in the Motor Guard. Cardboard is not a problem, does not break down.
What do you mean tape? Regarding the cardboard, doesn't it have to be removed (not worried about it breaking down, I don't understand how the oil goes through the TP to the center of the TP. If I place a roll of TP on my desk, with the cardboard middle pointing up and down, what direction does the oil flow? Does it go laterally (left/right) from the outside of the roll through sheet after sheet through to the inside (where the cardboard is), or does it flow up and down, sort of between the sheets (but not between because they are compressed). I'm trying to figure out how it works. One consideration is that if I'm going to do this, is there a reason to consider going with a dual bypass to include both the bypass and the full-flow? Do I have enough room for a sandwich adapter?
 
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The tape is Tartan 3690 plastic tape. Ralph supplied the tape. It holds the TP sheets tight. The Motor Guard is a nice design. Seals great. The way my Motor Guard is set up is oil enters the Motor Guard and then the oil exits through the Cardboard center. When the truck cools the oil drains back through the cardboard center and does not spill when the TP is replaced. [I dont know] how the oil goes through the TP but it does a great job and the oil is staying clean after 3000 miles so far. I posted pictures of my install 12 Aug 2004 at 12:42 if you want to look. I did not have much room but the sandwich adapter fit in nicely. http://www.bypassfilter.com/ explains more in depth. Ralph is the expert as far as I am concerned. [Cheers!] I still have the full-flow and the bypass filter. Ralph said he does not have a full-flow on his Camry. [LOL!] [ October 13, 2004, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: oldman ]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon: I have to say I really like the idea that the Amsoil comes with top-notch lines good to 500 psi, top-notch fittings, etc...
You can get those fittings and much more at any shop that sells them for about half the price that Amsoil sells them at.
 
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I have used both, and the Amsoil filter works very well. However, in my opinion the Motor Guard keeps the oil cleaner and even after 1500 miles the oil on the dipstick is still clear. It's a matter of personal choice; both will help with engine wear and engine longevity, but I switched over to the Motor Guard because I belive that nothing can filter as good as a roll of tp. Now that I am running Schaeffer's 5w30 blend and I get the tp in bulk it costs me about $2.50 every 2K, and my oil always stays clean. If you don't mind the few extra minutes that it takes to maintain the Motor Guard system then the choice is pretty clear. [Big Grin]
 

Jon

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I sent Ralph an email, it seems like the MG is the way to go. It filters to a lower micronic level and has vastly less expensive (and more available) elements. On the other hand, Amsoil has that nifty precharger which wouldn't require anything extra to make it work, but that is NOT a consideration at this time.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by oldman: For only 50 cents per TP change and time, about 2 to 3 minutes 3000 miles will not be very costly.
You are also forgetting the price of makeup oil. If your paying $6/quart for oil, your will have 10 times the makeup oil as well. Secondly, the cost of the unit itself should also be factored, the Amsoil comes with all the necessary hoses and parts. I can give exact pricing for which unit you want to look at. But to keep it an apples to apples you should be looking at the BMK 11 which is the stand alone by-pass setup. Lastly, as far as keeping the oil clean, are we talking particle counts or the color of the oil? I dont' see how the color has any bearing on the fact, I would trust oil analysis and particle counts. Even after 3 years without changing, the Amsoil (oil) was a dark Amber but not black. We are talking over 30,000 miles. I changed by-pass filters only 2 times and FF filters about 4 times during those 3 years.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by plexx: However, in my opinion the Motor Guard keeps the oil cleaner and even after 1500 miles the oil on the dipstick is still clear.
Most new cars even without a by-pass filter will keep the oil clear on the Dipstick for 2-3 thousand miles. Now weather it's clean of contaminants that remains to be seen unless you do analysis
 
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With all due respect to the TP and PT roll methods of bypass filtration ....I've got to pass. I prefer the spin-on Amsoil filters ..even if they may be a micron or two shy in performance over the others. That 3k FCI is just too much for me to cope with given the mileage that my principle vehicles accumulate. My whole goal is to install systems that reduce my maintenance while providing superior filtration. That won't allow me to deal with changing two TP filters every 8-10 weeks. I'm still in the verification phase of my system. I just sent in a UOA with 12.5k on Delvac 1 with the Amsoil/ff running in parallel. This will verify whether it affords enough protection over that duration (which it probably does). If all proves well ....then we'll go for a full year (I've only got to go another 5-6k to get a full year). That I can live with. ONE annual oil change (I think the TBN of Delvac will be great @ 12.5k ..but we'll see) ..one mess ...and a smile on my face when asks what's under the hood. Although I don't care too much for their pricing and proprietory harware, I don't discount the quality of the given items. Most marketing concerns typically provide a "facilitator" at a relatively cheap price (inkjet printers, cellular phones) so that they can cash in on the repeated sales (cartridges, air time). This is not the case with this product line however. Then again, if it works as described, what am I complaining about [I dont know]
 
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For only 50 cents per TP change and time, about 2 to 3 minutes 3000 miles will not be very costly. I don't have to cut the TP rolls to fit in the Motor Guard. Just unroll some of the sheets and put tape supplied and put it in the Motor Guard. Cardboard is not a problem, does not break down. You could have hydraulic lines made up at a local shop, I don't have any problems with the fittings that I installed. I used a sandwich universal adapter on my 2003 Tundra. RaplhPWood is a sponsor on this site. Check out his webpage, great info. Gives prices.
 
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Why is the recommended TP change interval 3k miles with Ralph's Motorguard filters. Seems like with the humongous amount of deep filter media in a roll of TP that it would take a lot longer than 3k miles to lose it's effectiveness. Is there any test data that shows how effective a roll of TP is over long OCI intervals? Is the 3K mile interval a hangover from when they had you change the elements frequently so you would be replenishing the old dino oils weak additive pack? That wouldn't be necessary with a good synthetic oil. If Ralph could recommend a 6k or more TP change interval, the MG TP filters would be more attractive. I'm not going to use one, but think Ralph is a straight shooter with a product that's right for many people.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by XS650: Why is the recommended TP change interval 3k miles with Ralph's Motorguard filters. Seems like with the humongous amount of deep filter media in a roll of TP that it would take a lot longer than 3k miles to lose it's effectiveness.
Because the oil goes through the TP lenghtwise. Therefore you have a little surface area. So while you have plenty of media to travel through, which really keeps the oil clean. The capacity for holding dirt is very low. If you go too long on those filters you risk the chance of channelling the oil through a weak spot in the filter, then basically the filter is useless. As opposed to the filters like Amsoil where the oil is filtered around the entire ouside of the media you have a lot of surface area, which makes the capacity mucher higher. But the downside is that you don't have 4 inches of meada for the oil to travel through to be cleaned you only have about 1 1/2 inches to 2 inches. Both filters are basically trade-offs. One has high capacity but not as much effeciency(amsoil) the other has very low capacity, but very high effeciency(motorguard). Either one is probably 10-20 times more effeicienct than a full flow filter. One you just have to service more often.
 
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Lastly, as far as keeping the oil clean, are we talking particle counts or the color of the oil? I dont' see how the color has any bearing on the fact, I would trust oil analysis and particle counts. I posted a UOA on this forum 23 Sep 2004 and it looked very good to me. I believe that both are very good units and hope that more people would stop throwing good oil away. [Big Grin] BTW msparks I went to Tenn Tech with someone who was from Clarksville. I was born in Columbia. [Cheers!]
 
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I did very well for over thirty years without sending oil to a lab. I know that how often a filter needs to be changed depends on how effective it is and it's capacity. Also how dirty the engine is and driving conditions. The only advantage oil analysis would be to me would be to tell me if anything is wrong with my engine such as a leaky head gasket. I would probably know that if the oil starts getting cloudy. There are a lot of things you can do and get away with. I was talking to a guy with a Dodge pickup that had 40,000 miles on his engine. He didn't have a bypass filter and the oil still looked not too bad. He had never changed the oil. Someone will have to pay the price for his sorry maintenance program; him if he keeps the truck long enough. A 37 Studebaker book says to change the bypass filter when the oil starts looking dirty on the oil depth gaughe (dip stick).The problem with that is the oil filter should be changed before the oil looks dirty on the dipstick. I was talking to a guy about a new thing I was doing to use a full roll of TP by wrapping tape around it. I sent him a roll of tape. Then I decided it was best to leave well enough alone and just unroll enough paper so that it doesn't pinch in the gasket. I just sent a filter to Canada with tape wrapped around the element but I wrote the Tartan 3590 on the tape. The tape wouldn't allow you to use a full roll of Scott 1000 sheet. I get my elements and tape from www.vickingop.com. Ralph [Burnout]
 
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