Amsoil Support

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Here's an update on my oil situation regarding the "abnormal" oil analysis on my 2001 Tahoe 5.3L using Amsoil S2K 0W30.

I wrote a letter to AJ Amatuzio addressing the abnormal analysis and the possible cause being use of PowerFoam. I requested that Amsoil replace the 6 qts of S2K 0W30; Filter and the Test Kit because the oil should last at least 1 year. My UOA showed that the oil was not performing according to my expectations. (Test perfomed by OAI).

Yesterday, I received an e-mail that Amsoil (corporate not my Jobber) is sending me the replacement oil, filter and test kit.

That is the kind of support that one can depend on. Some folks talk about warranty, others stand behind it.

It must be noted that I was warned by some on this forum that I should not be quick to "dump" Amsoil and that I should change my oil and re-sample.

Sign me happy and ready to give it another try!

Cheers, Doug in Colorado
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I do want to make a point in this specific case ....

The current Series of V-6 and V-8, GM "Vortec" engines have "hypereutectic", Aluminum pistons that fit very loosely in the cylinder bores during the warmup phase. This material has a large coefficient of thermal expansion, ie, "CTE", so this design is necessary to get the proper clearances with a fully warmed up motor.

As a result of this design, you get what in my considered judgement is excessive blowby and oil contamination if you do mainly short trip driving with these engines - particularly in cold weather. As much as anything else, this is the direct cause of the oil degradation you are seeing....

I'd probably run a low vis, synthetic diesel oil like the Series 3000, 5w-30 in this motor - specifically for this reason ....If I ran a Mobil synlube in this application, it would be Delvac 1, 5w-40 ....

Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics
(256) 651-3590, cell
 
Amsoil stands behind their products and has great customer service. Any question I've ever asked them was returned within one business day. And with BITOG, Tooslick, Pablo and Msparks all do a very nice job.
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quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
I do want to make a point in this specific case ....

The current Series of V-6 and V-8, GM "Vortec" engines have "hypereutectic", Aluminum pistons that fit very loosely in the cylinder bores during the warmup phase. This material has a large coefficient of thermal expansion, ie, "CTE", so this design is necessary to get the proper clearances with a fully warmed up motor.

As a result of this design, you get what in my considered judgment is excessive blow-by and oil contamination if you do mainly short trip driving with these engines - particularly in cold weather. As much as anything else, this is the direct cause of the oil degradation you are seeing....

I'd probably run a low vis, synthetic diesel oil like the Series 3000, 5w-30 in this motor - specifically for this reason ....If I ran a Mobil synlube in this application, it would be Delvac 1, 5w-40 ....

Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics
(256) 651-3590, cell


I own one of these trucks (2001 GMC) and don't see anything like this, never noticed any blow-by whatsoever. I run 10W-30 (ATM) Amsoil PAO at 1 yr intervals. In the 41,000 miles and 3 +yrs I have never seen my oil level drop any significant amount, nor have I found the oil dirty looking. BTW-I put synthetic oil in the engine as soon as I got the truck home, somewhere less the 50 miles. From that point I went 1 yr on the oil and never had it drop at all.


Weird thing happened this last saturday I was plowing snow with my 1992 Silverado 5.0L. It was cold, around 7°F. The truck was idling for a while while I was shoveling some snow from around doors. I drove to the store about 5 miles to get something to drink. As I was coming back, I felt the truck was lacking power. I was driving into the sun so I was not looking at the gages. But I happened to spot the read lite on dash the said, "Check Gages". I noticed my Temp gage was buried at the hot level, must have been like this for some time? Duh! I continued to drive home about 2 miles, coasting as much as possible. (Was not going to walk in 7° temp.) When I got home I could not see anything wrong but then felt the top rad hose and it was ice cold indicating the thermostat was stuck closed. The the other hose and heater hose were ready to burst. I have Series 2000 0W-30 in the engine, I don't think I would still have an engine if I was running dino oil.

[ February 03, 2004, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
 
Tooslick, Have mercy on me but with all due respect ,hyperutectic pistons expand very little allowing a very tight piston to bore clearance. How do I know? I put hyperutectic pistons in my last boat engine,they are very good for high performance street type engines.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Steve S:
hyperutectic pistons expand very little allowing a very tight piston to bore clearance.

Yeeup. No clue how the knocking engines are fit, but the more hyper your eutectic, the lower the CTE.

Eutectic: 22um/um/K (12.5% silicon)
Hypereutectic: 19um/um/K (16%)

ferb!
 
Amsoil guys I'm highly impressed by that level of service. If I had access to a decent rep I'd try it god's honour! Ted I always thought forged ran larger piston-to-wall clearance (my TRW's were .007" in my 351 Clevo) than Hypereutectic type. Are their loose fit Hypereutectic and tight fit?
 
Just to counterbalance this a little. About 6 years ago I returned a defective oil filter to Amsoil. They refunded my money but not my shipping costs (both ways) which I had requested. E-mails (including those to Amatuzio) were never returned.

I know they are a very good company and make a great product so I do not knock them. But unfortunately I was soured early on by my one and only experience.

That being said, I have been planning on giving them another try.

DEWFPO
 
quote:

Originally posted by sprintman:

Are their loose fit Hypereutectic and tight fit?


Nope
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Hypereutectics offer 15% less thermal expansion than previously used alloys which stops piston rocking if the skirt design is good and aids ring seal and lowers emissions . These types with their high silicon content set up at only 0.001 clearance usually with a 4in bore . That's tight at 1/2 a thousand per side .

They also pull the heat to the piston crown for a better burn and more positives too numerous to remember .

Set them up too loose and they will break . Set the ring gap too close and they will bust the ring land . Just a different animal they are .
 
Steve,

I stand corrected ...I just assumed the well known piston slap in these engines was from excessive pistion to cylinder clearances. I'll have to go back and take a look at my old materials handbook to check on the respective CTE's ....

Ted
 
quote:

Originally posted by DEWFPO:

That being said, I have been planning on giving them another try.

DEWFPO


Be sure you buy from a dealer that would back up any problem that you would have as a customer. If my customer want the price of the shipping I would have gladly paided. I'm not about selling 4 quarts of oil to someone. I'm about selling a lifetime solution for all their equipment needs.

Good luck to you.
 
Many engines now use hypereutectic pistons, not just GM's, so the poor analysis results should be seen in other applications. However, this is just good Customer Service. You didn't have to "have a stroke" to get some good service from a good product - we should all expect and demand good Customer Service, especially when problems arise. By good Customer Service, a potentual problem has probably been converted into a loyal Customer. There will be problems with every oil/engine/thing, and it's the way it is resolved is all that matters. And yes, I've been using Amsoil for years. I've had order problems fixed by a simple call. The Amsoil (and other folks) should continue to deliver good products but even better Customer Service.
 
I believe GM is also using a very aggressive EGR (exhaust gas re-circulation) valve, "duty cycle" to reduce exhaust emissions in these large displacement engines. As a result, you are dumping lots of combustion by-products directly back into the combustion chamber. In other words, you are burning "dirty air" to begin with and the stuff that gets by your piston rings is full of NOx and other nasty hydrocarbons ....This why you tend to see high solids levels in these oil analyses, regardless of the quality of oils used.

I've seen significant oil contamination and thickening in the 4.3L, GM V-6 engine, along with most of their Vortec V-8 engines ....There is no real solution to this, other than to use an oil that can handle lots of contamination. Hence my recommendation to use a low vis, synthetic diesel oil that is SL/CI-4 rated ....

Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics
 
TooSlick,

I heard your recommendations and agree. I stayed the course with S2K 0W30 because I wanted to see some trend analysis with S2K. If after a total of 3 changes with S2K I am showing some need to be concerned about solids or viscosity problems, then I can change to the S3K. I hate to "cut and run" without some long term analysis. If I was quick to discount after one UOA I would have returned to Mobil 1.

Thanks for you comments. Cheers, Doug
 
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