AMSOIL Signature Series 5w50

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by StevieC
I'm looking ridiculous... Who is the one providing a chart irrelevant to what I asked you which was... "WHERE DID I MENTION YOU?".



Hold on, Steve. At the time you made your, "haters will hate..." post, Shannow was the only poster who had offered detailed info that the oil in question might have a drawback (large amounts of vis index improvers). One other poster expressed general doubt, and another questioned the oil's use in very cold weather.

With that said, it seems entirely reasonable to conclude that your mention of "haters" at least included Shannow, if it wasn't exclusively pointed at him... THAT'S where you mentioned him. You didn't have to name him by name, it's still perfectly clear.

I didn't mention him. He assumed. I explained this.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Who hasn't used it? I have. Was I supposed to notice something amazing? It's just oil.

No one has "trashed" anything - I just don't believe the 100% "synthetic" marketing mumbo-jumbo.


Just oil? You are on the wrong site.


C'mon, be fair! He has his opinion about the oil (nothing special) as you have yours (you like it more than Shannow does). And he found a good place to express it! He's on the right site! His opinion differs from yours (and many of mine, I'm sure). And that's OK. Or it should be...

Post what you like, but you'd be much more credible and persuasive if you'd just make your case for or against the actual product in question. You suggested this oil contains low levels of VIIs. Can you support this?


I explained this already in another thread. I even posted the E-mail from Amsoil where they claim to be using little to no VII's. Pretty funny that they don't shear down right away or after lots of miles as the used oil analysis confirm here but Mobil 1 0w40 does into a 30wt almost immediately. I'm not knocking Mobil 1 but just using as an example. So this to me would indicate little to no VII's used as Amsoil claims. It doesn't matter anyway, I could pay the $1300 and have the oil in-depth analyzed and post it here and folks wouldn't believe it anyway.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted by StevieC

I didn't mention him. He assumed. I explained this.


Again, as I explained, you didn't name him by name (you plainly didn't). You didn't have to. You can't escape on this "technicality" though. Given what had been posted to that point, and by whom, there was no other reasonable conclusion (or assumption of you prefer) except that the "hater" comment was directed at him (and others too, perhaps). If not him, then who?

But the bigger point is this: you post a lot of good stuff on this forum. Unfortunately, a fair amount of it gets obscured by the thick smoke from the nearby fires you ignite (or add fuel to) by trading jabs. IMO, you ought to add the info containing Amsoil's claims, and their support, to THIS thread. You may have posted it before, and a repeat may be tedious, but let's hash out this thread's question in this thread. Let's figure out this oil as best we can, INSTEAD of trying to see who's the sharpest wit.

This is supposed to be about oil, not trading jabs or labels with those with conflicting ideas...

 

[StevieC]

Whatever, done with this thread.

 

[4wd]

Looking at the EMCC/infinium chart (more virtual royalty owed to Shannow) … and considering this is the "seller version" (and Amsoil is a buyer) … seems a fair amount of VM is needed for 0w40 …

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by StevieC
I explained this already in another thread. I even posted the E-mail from Amsoil where they claim to be using little to no VII's.


One is not blending a 5w-50 with little to no VII's, it's simply not possible. The base oil doesn't exist to make it happen. Having to simultaneously meet the viscosity of the xW-50 designation and the 5W-xx winter rating required a reasonably light base oil which is then going to be padded with VII's to hit the 100C visc target.

Look at the one grade AMSOIL produces with no VII's: 10w30. Now figure you are going to need a thinner base to hit the 5w-xx designation, and VII's to hit the xW-50 one.

This is further bolstered by the VI of 185 that the product carries, which is far above the natural VI of any base oil on the market.

If we look at Mobil's heaviest PAO that still fits below where things get really heavy, SpectraSyn 10 (the jump is from 10cSt to 40cSt), it has a VI of 137 and a CCS of 8,840cP @ -30C, which does not meet the requirements for the 5W-xx designation, though it would meet 10W-xx. So you are starting with say SpectraSyn 8 (VI of 139, CCS of 4,800 @ -30C) and padding it from 8.0 cSt to 19.4, or you are using a slightly heavier base blended with a lighter base, as per the Mobil blending guide, which shows almost 12% of the blend being VII:

 

[caprice_2nv]

So if I'm making a correct assumption, even in old 1970s technology engines like mine, if it runs fine on a 5w30 then that it's probably a better oil to use than the thicker ones due to less vii?

In my 76 350 Oldsmobile I have low oil pressure at idle and slightly low compression across the board ~130-145 psi. This hasn't changed in 10 years and 100k miles (total miles on engine unknown). Oil pressure looks better with a 5w50 but the engine seems quietest with a 5w30. Other than those 2 observations it runs the same on any oil and usage is about 1qt per 2500 miles give or take. Slight improvement from 10 years ago. Only synthetic oils last 10 years (lots of Pennzoil platinum, some amsoil, Mobil 1, Castrol 0w30, 5w50, Kendall, Quaker state, etc. Always less than 5k mile OCI. Hopefully the decrease in oil usage means the ring packs are being cleaned over the past 10 years with all the good oil. Last compression test was a few years ago so I'll check it again in the spring.

I've used almost every brand and grade of oil in it but usually what I can get on sale. I'm always open to learn more to help decide which oil may be the best at delaying the inevitable engine rebuild one day.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
So if I'm making a correct assumption, even in old 1970s technology engines like mine, if it runs fine on a 5w30 then that it's probably a better oil to use than the thicker ones due to less vii?

In my 76 350 Oldsmobile I have low oil pressure at idle and slightly low compression across the board ~130-145 psi. This hasn't changed in 10 years and 100k miles (total miles on engine unknown). Oil pressure looks better with a 5w50 but the engine seems quietest with a 5w30. Other than those 2 observations it runs the same on any oil and usage is about 1qt per 2500 miles give or take. Slight improvement from 10 years ago. Only synthetic oils last 10 years (lots of Pennzoil platinum, some amsoil, Mobil 1, Castrol 0w30, 5w50, Kendall, Quaker state, etc. Always less than 5k mile OCI. Hopefully the decrease in oil usage means the ring packs are being cleaned over the past 10 years with all the good oil. Last compression test was a few years ago so I'll check it again in the spring.

I've used almost every brand and grade of oil in it but usually what I can get on sale. I'm always open to learn more to help decide which oil may be the best at delaying the inevitable engine rebuild one day.


I wouldn't be overly concerned with VII content, it's simply that oils with high visc spreads will inherently have more VII in them. A 5w-40 HDEO might be a good compromise for you, something like Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 or Rotella. I run Delvac in our 351 marine engine and my 4-wheeler.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by StevieC
I'm using the 0w30 from their same series. It's an excellent oil and holds up well so I suspect the 5w50 will do the same as the additive package is the same being in the Signature Series line.
They have just modified the base stock composition and VII's where needed to achieve the 5w50 ratings. It has a great Noack for such a spread as 5w and 50.


Believe me, they use PLENTY to get 186 VI...Harman Index of 75% guarantees this is the case, as does Mobil's blend guide.

OP, 5W50 isn't a very efficient way of getting an HTHS of 4.45

eg their premium protection 10W40
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2212.pdf
is 4.3...
Redline's 5W40
https://www.redlineoil.com/5w40-motor-oil
is 4.4

HTHS is what protects bearings, and wide spread 50s give you the HTHS of a decent 40 grade, with more plastic VII that has the potential to shear and cause deposits.

If yo are going to track it, pick something more robust with a smaller spread.



Agree 100%. Smaller spread is more ideal for track/racing use where fuel dilution can be an issue.

RL has always talked about their minimal use of VII's. One of the best qualities I've noticed about RL via used oil analysis is how shear stable it is. Their 5w30 and 40 always remained in grade. However, TBN and wear metals were never that stellar.


Mobil 1 Racing 0w50 is interesting. I'm not sure why their approach to a racing oil is so different from RL's in terms of VII's.

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-racing-oil

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL


I wouldn't be overly concerned with VII content, it's simply that oils with high visc spreads will inherently have more VII in them. A 5w-40 HDEO might be a good compromise for you, something like Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 or Rotella. I run Delvac in our 351 marine engine and my 4-wheeler.


My last fill is Mobil 1 5w50 that was on sale, but 5w40 used to be my most common fill. I've used Rotella t6, Pennzoil platinum Euro, Castrol, Kendall in that grade. I always figured it was a good choice.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by OVERKILL


I wouldn't be overly concerned with VII content, it's simply that oils with high visc spreads will inherently have more VII in them. A 5w-40 HDEO might be a good compromise for you, something like Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 or Rotella. I run Delvac in our 351 marine engine and my 4-wheeler.


My last fill is Mobil 1 5w50 that was on sale, but 5w40 used to be my most common fill. I've used Rotella t6, Pennzoil platinum Euro, Castrol, Kendall in that grade. I always figured it was a good choice.


It was

 

[caprice_2nv]

If price was no concern I would run the 10w40 amsoil premium protection (extra zinc for my flat tappet cam). But that's about $70+ of oil whereas I can buy it for $28 on sale at Canadian Tire or Walmart from Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Castrol or Quaker state.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
If price was no concern I would run the 10w40 amsoil premium protection (extra zinc for my flat tappet cam). But that's about $70+ of oil whereas I can buy it for $28 on sale at Canadian Tire or Walmart from Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Castrol or Quaker state.


Realistically, unless that's an aggressive aftermarket stick, the extra ZDDP won't provide any benefit.

 

[Gokhan]

5W-50 is the specified oil for Mustang Shelby. Also, it's cousin 20W-50 is the standard oil in many countries unless temperatures are arctic.

It's good for high RPMs (oil thinning due to high oil temperature) and/or extreme loads. If the oil temperature rises to 200 C during high-RPM racing, a 5W-50 will become a 5W-20. Otherwise, you don't need it in a modern engine.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL


Realistically, unless that's an aggressive aftermarket stick, the extra ZDDP won't provide any benefit.


I would have to agree, it's the original camshaft from 1976. Same with the entire valve train. There is probably not enough pressure there to need anything special in the oil. I just figured it couldn't hurt before, but then price became more important than buying the best possible oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by OVERKILL


Realistically, unless that's an aggressive aftermarket stick, the extra ZDDP won't provide any benefit.


I would have to agree, it's the original camshaft from 1976. Same with the entire valve train. There is probably not enough pressure there to need anything special in the oil. I just figured it couldn't hurt before, but then price became more important than buying the best possible oil.



No, that broomstick and its well worn springs would probably be fine on anything

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by buster


Mobil 1 Racing 0w50 is interesting. I'm not sure why their approach to a racing oil is so different from RL's in terms of VII's.

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-racing-oil

Yeah, I've critiscised that oil in the past for the same reasons...I think that they want a 50 on the bottle, with an oil that behaves like a 40 in the engine...maybe racers will get that "pant's seat dyno" improvement with it.

 

[4wd]

Yeah … 3.8

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by JoelB
The pour point is -54F, should be just fine for winter pretty much anywhere.



No it not it would take a nice moderate run to get that oil to a viscosity to properly protect.

 

[4wd]

Likely a cat killer on the Z's …