Amsoil S2k Deficiencies

buster · Jun 6, 2003

Based on all of the UOA's we have on this board, would everyone agree that the regular 5w,10w-30 line of oils are every bit as good as the S2k 0w-30? S2k has been very dissapointing based on all the UOA's. Only a few have been really good. Has anyone been able to figure out if they reformulated this oil and have been using new spuppliers?

like a rock · Jun 7, 2003

I do think amsoil is a good product. I used 5w-30 full synthetic last year with mixed results. At 3000 miles according to UOA the viscosity had sheared back to a heavy 20 weight, but the tbn and other wear metals looked very good. But goning 35000 miles or one year or 25000 miles and one year I do not think so. Every UOA I have read with 6000 or higher mileage was not so great but not terrible either. It seems we can do almost as well with regular dino juice changed at 3 month intervals. Synthetic amsoil is good but it is not going to hold up for 25000 miles or 35000.

Jay · Jun 7, 2003

What's wrong with this report?:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000473#000000

Is there a problem with this oil or a problem with your perception? It's really funny how two people can look at the same reports and come to completely different conclusions.

As far as I'm concerned, and as far as we know, Amsoil 0w-30 is the best 0w-30 around.

Pablo · Jun 7, 2003

Buster wrote:

quote:

S2k has been very disappointing based on all the UOA's. Only a few have been really good.

Talk about a "leading" question. Aside from the fact that you aren't exactly correct*, it seems your disappointment is based on not hitting 35K, each time. How many GD times to we need to beat that dead horse? Sure Amsoil needs to drop the claim.

What EXACT deficiencies are you talking about? The oil is a very excellent oil. *I have seen some reports were the oil looks pretty beat up at 20K miles, yet the wear metals were still pretty low.

Next topic.

TooSlick · Jun 7, 2003

I think the Series 2000, 0w-30 is the best long drain oil on the market, bar none. If you are doing lots of short trip driving in cold weather, I don't see a particular advantage in using the 0w-30 over the regular 5w-30 or 10w-30. But if you are doing lots of highway driving, the stuff holds up extremely well. I ran some for 16,000 miles in a 2.0L VW engine and still had a TBN of 8.1. I've yet to see any other oil that will do that, except perhaps the Series 3000, 5w-30.

As for consistency, if you run this oil in the same engine under the same conditions, you will get very consistent results. The variation you are seeing is due to the severity of driving conditions and the mechanical condition of particular engines.

I certainly think it's the best 0w-30 available - I'll be amazed if the Castol 0w-30 performs this well ....

TooSlick

buster · Jun 7, 2003

quote:

I think the Series 2000, 0w-30 is the best long drain oil on the market, bar none

Ted, what UOA's have you been looking at? There is no way right now how this oil is the best long drain oil available IMO. I here what your saying about continual use and sound mechanical engine, but some of these engines met those requirements. Pablo, this oil hasn't shown that many decent results beyond 12k miles and your calling it an excellent oil? I'm talking about depleted TBN after several thousand miles and many inconsitant reports. How can this oil be excellent? My point is while Amsoil is pushing S2k as a better product, it does seem like it is from what I've seen. I think the regular line has shown to be very good. I think for the money and consistancy, the 5w/10w-30's have been very solid.

[ June 08, 2003, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: buster ]

PaJohn · Jun 7, 2003

Originally posted by TooSlick:
[QB]
......As for consistency, if you run this oil in the same engine under the same conditions, you will get very consistent results. The variation you are seeing is due to the severity of driving conditions and the mechanical condition of particular engines.......

I don't post much, still digesting all the info you guys share. But I wanted to mention that it's my OA cited above in the Audi S4 and I'm at 6k now on the new batch of 0W30. Plan on sending a new sample in soon, so we'll see if the results are consistant. I'll probably be sewitching to M1 0W40 for the summer.

Keep sharing guys, it's a very interesting forum. Thanks

Al · Jun 7, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by PaJohn:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
[QB] ` I'll probably be sewitching to M1 0W40 for the summer.

Keep sharing guys, it's a very interesting forum. Thanks

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Why would you switch to the Mobil 1? Granted-I would like to see more comparisons with Mobil vs Amsoil but If I were you I would stick with Amsoil-based on your UOA. Having said that-I can understand bc I am doing comparisons with Mobil 1/ Delvac 1 / Schaeffers in 3 cars. Its a sickness.

BTW I lived in the Reading area. Graduated from Exeter HS-'64 and Graduated from Albright.

Spector · Jun 7, 2003

Until someone can define the ideal oil analysis report the best we can do is offer opinions on whether a sample is good or poor. Under some scenarioes the the S2k does well and not so well in others but that is true of every oil I have seen UOA on this board. Even redLine has some poor UOA. Too much dependent on engine, driving, climate, previous oils used etc.etc. Few people on this board use the sam eoil for years so a trend is not readily apparent. Each is a one point reference it seems

Now, if the poster would put forth what he considers a good analysis report by wear numbers, mileage and climate and driving as the ideal perhaps we can see who has used s2k under those circumstances and have an apples to apples debate. What are the results that would make the original poster happy with S2K?????

I use the 0W in one engine, around 7-10,000 miles in the one year change interval. Holds up fine, the same or slightly better then the 10W30. Should I expect fantastic UOA results, wear numbers to drop significantly, Maybe, maybe not. Personally, in my other engines I use the 10W and it has done fine but reaches its demise around 12,000 in one, 7500 in two others. Yes the Amsoil marketing sucks but not many other oils can go the same distance in my cars so other then martketing is the oil bad?

PaJohn · Jun 7, 2003

Al, I've been switching back and forth since new. I also plan on keeping this car a long time, so I'd like to satisfy my curiosity as to which is better.

On a personal note, we moved out this way from Norristown about 15 yrs ago. Have you been back lately....you wouldn't recognize Exeter!
Cheers, from one old geezer to another.

Al · Jun 7, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by PaJohn:
Al, I've been switching back and forth since new. I also plan on keeping this car a long time, so I'd like to satisfy my curiosity as to which is better.

On a personal note, we moved out this way from Norristown about 15 yrs ago. Have you been back lately....you wouldn't recognize Exeter!
Cheers, from one old geezer to another.

I totally understand the concept of switching.

Yea I get back in the reading area a couple times a year. I get back into the Exeter Township maybe every 2 years. If you think its changed not-try comparing it to what it was in 1955 when I moved there.

Mike_dup1 · Jun 7, 2003

quote:

Its a sickness.

You got that right...............

I have used the 0W-30 since 1996. I changed oil 1/yr not matter the miles. That 1996 Chevy Silverado Ext. Cab Z71 is with its second owner and has 100,000 miles and he still uses the 0W-30. For the last 50,000 miles the truck has seen severe service in his business, plowing snow, towing cars, sometimes it runs all day long. In the 3 yrs I owned it and since he has, it never needed to have any oil added between changes, not one has it gone down more the 1/3 qt. The truck engine and drive drain (Amsoil in all) is like new and thats all the proof I need, not some 1 time OA of questionable interpretation.

I have the 0W-30 in my 2001 GMC SLT Ext Cab Z71.

IMO - There is absolutely no reason to do OA if you regularly change your oil. Its not cost effective.

[ June 08, 2003, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]

buster · Jun 7, 2003

quote:

What are the results that would make the original poster happy with S2K?????

Amsoil is a very good oil, but we constantly here how Mobil 1 has deficiencies in many areas (which it does) and how it's not an elite oil. Well, we see many more consistant UOA's with Schaeffer's and Mobil 1 IMO. 0w-30, as Terry has stated, which no one seems to pay attention to, brought up the point that for years Amsoil relied on fuel residuals to staty in grade. S2k being there best product, hasn't shown to be an oil capable of going past 12k miles without some kind of problem. I'm not saying Mobil 1 or anyother would be BETTER, but you would think for a $8qt oil, S2k would be showing much more consistant promissing results. It's advertised as a 35k mile oil. Going one yr. is no big deal for any good syn. lube so that doesn't impress me. I'm trying to get at whether Amsoil has had another supplier change with this oil that makes it not as good as it used to be. In no way am I trying to attack Amsoil or there oil. I use it now. But Terry has noted, and I'm not sure if it's just S2k, that the oils don't seem to be holding up as they used to. Again, I'm not saying others are better.

[ June 08, 2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: buster ]

TooSlick · Jun 7, 2003

Buster,

These are the last three batches of Amsoil I've run in my Tacoma:

Product/Miles/Viscosity @ 100C/TBN

0w-30/12k/11.2 Cst/8.4

Series 3000, 5w-30/15k/12.1 Cst/7.2

5w-30, "ASL"/12k/10.9 Cst/7.2

I see no indication of Amsoil significantly thickening in my personal vehicles ....In the case of the 0w-30 and Series 3000, I ran the same oil for two fully years to rack up these miles.

TooSlick

Dick in Falls Church · Jun 7, 2003

I agree with Ted. I sell as much 0W-30 as all the others combined. The only customers/dealers who have had any problems have had mechanical problems, causing contamination or high nitration. Have seen quite a number of very good UOA reports with mileage approaching 35,000 miles.

As far as Mobil 1 having had some problems, my information is that the Tri-Synthetic formulation done shortly after the merger of "equals" used Exxon technology and involved some considerable cost engineering.

sprintman · Jun 8, 2003

Buster I like your idea re seperate UOA sections per oil. Hope Bob is listening?

buster · Jun 8, 2003

Ok, guys I guess I'm being too critical. I just posted all the UOA's we have on S2k and I am going to go throught them. Looks like the wear values are very good with this oil. I think what I always look at is the fact that the 35k mile drain is in the back of my mind and when I see low TBN's it just discourages me. It makes it easier to lay them all out in one section. There are some incredible reports in here and not so good ones too, but that comes with any oil.

Drstressor · Jun 8, 2003

Yes, that would be an excellent addition to the board.

Hapuna Beach · Jun 8, 2003

To accomplish "so called" 35,000 mile/1 year drain intervals, the oil is to be used in a "mechanically sound engine". Thats a pretty broad statement! Is a Saturn that burns a quart of oil in 1000 miles mechanically sound? Mechanically sound could mean different things to different people.

Also, TBN seems to be one of the prime considerations as to when an oil needs to be changed. What is the "standard" as to when an oil is no longer protecting an engine and is no longer usable? Who makes up the "standard"?

Hapuna

Spector · Jun 8, 2003

As to the Saturn question, IMO yes, that is mechanically sound as long as there are no severaly worn components that would contaminate the oil (ie burned a quart since new type of thing) . What I think they mean is are there coolant leaks, design flaws (ie: Toyota V6), gasket leaks, etc. As mechanically sound is impossible to really define this is one reason the warranty has never been anyone, it is always a mechanical failure or design flaw.

Normally depending on the lab (method used to determine TBN) a TBN of 2 or less is poor or 4 depending on lab. Also, some go by if the TBN drops to less then 50% of original value it is time to change.

Amsoil S2k Deficiencies

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