AMSOIL- Racing

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I have reprints of actual dyno results of the Amsoil Series 2000, 20w-50 from testing done on 358 ci, 400-525 Hp, Winston Cup and Busch Series racing motors. Most of these are from 1995-1996, when the S2000 was first introduced and show a gain of 2-4 Hp over other racing oils. I have no doubt that Amsoil is used in these cars, although it's more likely to be the 0w-30 and not the 20w-50 these days. The change from 20w-50 to 0w-30 and even 0w-20 has occurred in the past 6-7 years. Running low vis oils allows you to avoid one refueling stop in a 500 mile race, so it's a huge tactical advantage ....That's why everyone runs the thin oils these days, that and about 10-12 more horsepower at the high end. [ December 19, 2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]
 

TooSlick

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I happen to have one of these dyno test results in my briefcase - testing was performed on October 19, 1995 in Charlotte, NC in a 358 ci, Winston Cup engine. Peak Hp w/ Amsoil was 405 Hp @ 6500 rpms and peak torque was about 385 Ft-lbs @ 5100 rpms... This specific comparison was between the Series 2000, 20w-50 and the Pennzoil 20w-50 racing oil. In this particular engine, Amsoil provided a max gain of 24.6 Hp and 21.3 Ft-lbs of torque, in the 5100-6900 rpm range. If Johnny wants a copy of this, I'll be glad to mail it to him? ... I should note that a gain of this magnitude is the exception rather than the rule. In most cases, the gains I've seen are more like 2-4 Hp and 2-4 Ft-lbs of torque, compared to a petroleum racing oil of the same SAE grade. I also have a dyno test of a garden variety, 3.0L, V-6 from a Ford Taurus engine, comparing the S2000, 0w-30 to the 10w-30 Castrol GTX. Testing was done in Peoria, IL from Jan 23-Mar 19, 1997. This testing shows a max gain of 2.22 Hp and 2.75 Ft-lbs of torque in the 3850-4650 rpm range. Peak Hp/torque was only 115 Hp/150 Ft-lbs for this engine, so that's a significant gain. TS
 
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I have no doubt that Series 2000 20w-50 and 0w-30 are used by race teams. Why not?, Mobil 1 15w-50 has been used and S2k 20w-50 I'm sure was a better oil then that. Not to mention that the new 0w-30 R oil is something that appears to be along the lines of the Amsoil S2k. I do think though that you'll find MOST oil companies can make and do make high end specialty oils. It's not some secret magic. More stable base stocks and robust additives is what it takes. When you see the Casrol, 76 or M1 logo on the side of the cars, it most likely is some special brew. This is where Amsoil looses it's edge as other companies are clearly capable of making great oils. $$R&D$$. [ December 19, 2003, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
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TooSlick: I do not doubt what you are saying and agree there is a big difference between synthetic and regular oils. But let me update everything. We have not made a racing 20W50 since 1985, however we do make a regular street 20W50. Our mineral based Group II+ racing oil is called GT25W50 and this product has been used with great success in NHRA and sprint car racing. It is not used in NASCAR. The product we make for NASCAR, IRL, and others cannot be purchased on the open market. It is a very stable PAO/ESTER MIX that comes in the following weights. 0W20, 0W30, 5W30, 10W30, AND 15W60. I will gurantee you that Amsoil or no one else has tested against this product unless they got a sample from one of our International or Domestic sponsored race teams. There is no doubt that Amsoil is a great street and racing oil, but there are others that will do the job just as well. Have a great Christmas [Cheers!]
 

TooSlick

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Johnny, We are in violent agreement ...if you don't use synthetic lubes in the engine, drivetrain, wheel bearings, you simply won't be competitive in high level racing. As I pointed out, these test results are eight years old in most cases. I'm sure the current Pennz Racing synlubes are excellent - and very expensive .... Happy Holidays to you as well! TS
 
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Jonny so Pennzoil makes high end PAO/Ester racing lubes? I figured as much that most of these oil companies really make there best stuff for NASCAR and other racing events. They clearly can make excellent oils. I guess my post was wrong about Amsoil S2k being good enough for racing. [I dont know]
 

TooSlick

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Buster, As Jack says: "You want the truth?, you can't handle the truth!" Happy Holidays to you as well ...
 
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You know what disapoints me!!!! When a company like Pensoil can make a good PAO/Ester oil for raceing but only sells junk GIII on the open market. If they made it and marketed it right alot of people would buy it! THey used to have a good synthetic before they went to the current G III oil!
 
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JohnBrowning: I agree and disagree with you. My disagreement is that our's and most other Group III's are not junk. They are excellent oils and in some ways perform as good as PAO'S. I do agree with you that it should sell for less than a PAO based product, and I might add that I think Mobil 1 sells their product to cheap. I will say that we are seriously looking at introducing some very exotic synthetics in late 2004 or 2005, and if they come out everyone will ***** like hell. They won't be cheap. Probably somewhere in the $5.50 to $10.50 per liter range depending on which products they decide on. Until then I'll just keep using our Group III. Happy Holidays [Cheers!]
 

TooSlick

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JB, Going to the GP III stocks saves you 35-50 cents a quart, so its a no brainer when 95% of your customers don't know the difference. Performance for drain intervals of up to 10,000 miles is extremely close to a PAO, particularly when the fully formulated oil has to sell for $4.00/qt or less. You can take that 50 cent savings and get a much better additive package with the money. I'm really surprised Mobil hasn't played up their PAO basestock more, but it would probably just confuse most people anyway.
 
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POA's are only superior to GRPIII's at the extreemes:Temperature and Drain Intervals.We only "puppy mother" about GRPIII's because of their price. Like Bob always said,"It's the additive package that makes the most difference,in most cases". Calling GRPIII base oils junk sure is painting with a broad brush. Mark
 
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quote:
I will say that we are seriously looking at introducing some very exotic synthetics in late 2004 or 2005, and if they come out everyone will ***** like hell. They won't be cheap. Probably somewhere in the $5.50 to $10.50 per liter range depending on which products they decide on. Until then I'll just keep using our Group III.
Johnny, that would be awesome if you guys did this. More choices on the shelf is what I'm looking for. So would you recommend Pennzoil's synthetic Grp III or just regular oil? The regular is Grp II right?
 

TooSlick

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Buster, Everyone wants an extended stay in the "Paris Hilton", but they are only willing to pay for the Motel Six ... That's the situation when it comes to supply and demand of the ultra premium synthetic oils [Eek!]
 

TooSlick

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Drew, I suspect this engine had a restrictor plate on the carb ...I've seen some other 358 ci engines that were putting out more like 525 hp in that time period, but none that were putting out 750 hp .... Keep in mind that's power to the wheels, not what the engine makes ....
 
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quote:
Everyone wants an extended stay in the "Paris Hilton", but they are only willing to pay for the Motel Six ... That's the situation when it comes to supply and demand of the ultra premium synthetic oils
True. I never understood this logic. You spend anywhere from $20-$50k on a nice car and then people start to count pennies with oil? Why? Unless it's an economy car or a high mileage car, I can see maybe spending less. My next car will get the best oil available, period. Oil is cheap.
 
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Here's the scoop on NASCAR, AMSOIL has Dealers working at the highest levels of engineering for Ford and other manufacturers. At least a couple are very involved with the NASCAR programs. One in particular is close to Roush Racing. Based on their information, and my personal knowledge through conversations and product requests, there are teams testing and using AMSOIL synthetic motor oil. Here's the rub, AMSOIL does not, and is not, paying the seven-figure sponsorship fee requested by teams for representation on their cars. Don't be fooled by what's on the car because it might not be what's in the car. Around the pits, people who know racing - know AMSOIL. Thanks ~ John John G. Schuldt Racing Manager AMSOIL INC.
Just a little FYI. [Wink] We are days away from the ultimate oil battle, Amsoil Series 2000 VS Mobil 1 R. Live on paperview! Who will win? [LOL!] [ December 19, 2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
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