Amsoil probably using Group III as well?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Messages
34,037
Location
Southern NJ
Quote:
Hello, it appears that Mobil 1 is now a Group III based oil. I understand that the "finished product" is ultimately what matters so focusing strictly on the base oil isn't a good measure of total quality. My question for you is other than the XL line, do any of the ASL/ATM/TSO oils use any Group III base oils? Thanks for your time.
Quote:
Thank you for contacting AMSOIL with your concerns. While AMSOIL has publicly stated that it's XL motor oils are Group III based and its other motor oils are PAO based, specific formulary information beyond that is exclusive and proprietary. AMSOIL's commitment is to performance and not to a particular base oil. AMSOIL is committed to using the technology which delivers that performance, be it PAO or whatever. It should be noted what makes AMSOIL products great is our formulation of key ingredients that comes from years of accumulated experience and technical know-how. It is not just one ingredient. As you stated and we agree, it is the final product that matters. Thank you again for the opportunity to respond to your concerns. As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance. Sincerely, Ed Kellerman AMSOIL Technical Advisor
To be fair about this, it appears Amsoil's wording is not much different then Mobil's. Ed makes a valid point.
 
Last edited:

buster

Thread starter
Messages
34,037
Location
Southern NJ
We will never know nor do I think it matters at this point. These companies would never disclose what %'s they are using in the base oil blend.
 
Last edited:
Messages
1,079
Location
Senoia, GA
What I'd like to know is- Since when do a bunch of people on an Internet Forum know exactly what multi-billion dollar companies do to create their product and how do they know what is best?
 
Messages
210
Location
Reno, NV
Quote:
What I'd like to know is- Since when do a bunch of people on an Internet Forum know exactly what multi-billion dollar companies do to create their product and how do they know what is best?
Since somebody did a GC on their product. Nobody ever said whats best or not best. The contention here is what a company preaches and what it does. (Mobil stating for years that Group III shouldnt be aclled synthetic and then does the same) Somebody lock this topic.
 
Messages
1,304
Location
Kankakee, IL
Quote:
What I'd like to know is- Since when do a bunch of people on an Internet Forum know exactly what multi-billion dollar companies do to create their product and how do they know what is best?
Let us see about these statements...... 1. No one said exactly but what we did find did not coincide with marketing. This is thanks to people in the industry that have the tools to tell us the truth and we kind enough to share. 2. We are still debating that wheather or not GPIV is truely superior to GPIII but we do know what Mobil has professed for years and then snuck out a groupIII oil without saying a word. Only can assume it is still inferior. Amsoil says it is so does ExxonMobil current literature. 3. Whe the &*&*&^%* are you and why did you come here if none of the members of this forum are not qualified to make an informed decision. In ending simple truth is Mobil got caught with their pants down and we want to know why. Now if they want to share data that shows they have changed their minds and GroupIII oil is truely superior then maybe people would be more receptive but the fact is their only statements are that GPIV + are the only true synthetics and now shipping a GPIII calling it Synthetic. So what part of this am I missing???????? They got caught cheating by their own definition and past statements and won't discuss it, why believe them further is the question being posed. You answer it. Especially when they charge so much more. Now until we know more about the AMSOIL by testing we should still take them at their word it is GPiV + since the make an admittedly GPIII product.
 
Messages
719
Location
Ohio
I think what he is saying is that years ago Mobil came up with the GroupIV designation as "true synthetic" or "fully synthetic" and really poo pooed the Group III synthetics to the point of litigation. They have used this as a marketing brand anchor for years and now their product test out to be the same groupIII oil that they have been slamming for many years. Kinda hypocritical to most people.
 
Messages
577
Location
Chicago
Wonder why Redline or RP doesn't get the hate that Amsoil does?? There does seems like a "Hater Nation" when any question comes to Ams...
 
Messages
12,385
Location
Northern CA
Quote:
Wonder why Redline or RP doesn't get the hate that Amsoil does?? There does seems like a "Hater Nation" when any question comes to Ams...
Because of a common dislike of Amsoil's marketing scheme.
 
Messages
577
Location
Chicago
Still objectivity is what this site is about, not a personal dislike about how the money is made. My Grand father and mother-inlaw both sell Stanly home products and at one time I think they were selling Tupperware also, both are good products ( even tho I do PUNK out on house work).
 

buster

Thread starter
Messages
34,037
Location
Southern NJ
Quote:
What types of synthetic base oil fluids does AMSOIL use? A. As the developer of the world's first API qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972, AMSOIL has gained more experience than any other oil company in formulating automotive synthetic lubricants. AMSOIL draws on this experience to formulate its products using a full range of synthetic base oil and additive technologies. Performance is the bottom line. There are new types of base stocks being introduced, and there are additives that work best in one base stock or another. AMSOIL will not be locked into any single base oil strategy. As technology changes, equipment changes and the demands on lubricants evolve, AMSOIL will incorporate new base oil and additive chemistries if and when those new chemistries will enhance the performance of AMSOIL products. Currently, each AMSOIL lubricant is formulated with the synthetic base oil or combination of base oils best suited to that lubricant’s application demands. They are optimized using the most advanced premium synthetic base oils. Although AMSOIL has publicly stated that its XL motor oils are Group III based and its other motor oils are PAO based, specific formulary information beyond that is exclusive and proprietary. AMSOIL views synthetic base oils the same as it views additives. Each has its unique set of properties, and AMSOIL, based on its extensive experience, combines them differently for superior performance in any given application or operating condition (gasoline, diesel, racing, transmission, gear, extended drain, extreme temperature, etc.).
Amsoil changed the wording on this a bit. It does leave room for interpretation but regardless, it's well stated and very true.
 
Messages
22,188
Location
Colorado Springs
I think Amsoil has always made a superior product, especially today. The pour points, viscosity index, and especially their SM/GF-4 additive package (tripleseven, you can beat me up for this one based on the Valvoline UOA thread!) blows Mobil 1 away.
 
Messages
6,400
Location
New Braunfels
No one can lock themselves into a base oil..especially if there is potential for a shortage of it. Amsoil appears to be very aware of what is being said about Mobil 1. How can they say that their stuff is the good stuff without revealing proprietary information? The are still stating clearly that they are using PAO basestocks except for the XL lines and each formulation is unique in basestock and additive package. Also their is a differnce between "PAO based"Amsoil and "utilizing PAO" Mobil 1
 

buster

Thread starter
Messages
34,037
Location
Southern NJ
I agree Drew. I think Amsoil is making the best oils they ever have and I do think they are better than M1. I think Amsoil is using a much better additive package based on UOA's I've seen on here. Amsoil is more clear on this subject and is also more price competitive with the XL line.
 
Messages
23,365
Location
CA
Again, I think people just need to understand that the lubricant industry cannot rely upon a specific base stock. Availability and price become major issues and for competition reasons, blenders cannot be loyal to a particular base oil if they wish to stay in competitive. With that said, oils are sold on a performance basis anyway. The good GrpIII base oils on the market combined with the better additive packages can perform nearly identical to (if not identical) to the good 'ol PAO based products. I think this whole crowd here on this site focuses way too much on the base oil alone and forget that the additive package plays a significant role in the oil's performance. In addition, any performance differences that may exist between Group III and IV may not be noticeable anyway...so most of you obsessing over nothing.
 
Messages
7,409
Location
Austin, TX
Yeah...yeah...yeah...sounds just like JAG's spiel. Until you remind him of his own test results. If majority Group III products can be made almost as good as a Top-Shelf majority PAO product, where are they? And if majority Group III product is just as good as a majority PAO why doesn't Amsoil convert all their oils over instead of just the XL line. What about EOM D1 and MC oils? Same crapola...different day.
 
Messages
719
Location
Ohio
Quote:
the additive package plays a significant role in the oil's performance.
Very true especially with Marine & Motorcycle oils
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top