Amsoil or Redline for VW engines

I posted awhile ago about my 99 passat 1.8 turbo with 40K miles and have decided on Redline 5w-30. I am currently running the autoRX in my engine with Pennzoil Dino 10-30. I will do the rinse phase with dino and then go to redline. I was curious about the Amsoil product...how does it compare to the redline? Should I be looking at that as an option? My understanding is that both are good oils, but have heard redline is more for racing. Also while looking for info, the Amsoil dealer websites all look very "hyped up". It's hard to know the real deal. thanks, Bob [Smile]
 
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2,441
Location
Indiana
Based on UOA's here, I'd say Amsoil. But I hear you when you talk about the "hyped up" advertising. Took me a long time to get over it and realize that Amsoil is a great oil and not just hype. Plus the Amsoil dealers roaming this board are very professional and hype free.
 
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5,785
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Dixie
Both Amsoil and Redline work very well in VW/Audi motors ....The Amsoil 5w-30,10w-30/10w-40 are less expensive than Redline, and can go 8,000-12,000 miles in this application; depending on operating conditions. With either brand of oil, the motor will far out last the rest of the vehicle - particularly the German made electrical system! [Frown] Tooslick www.lubedealer.com/dixie_synthetics
 
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1,011
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Montgomery, Alabama
quote:
Originally posted by Silverado: Is Amsoil related to Amway at all????
No, Amsoil was founded over 30 years ago by Al Amatuzio and was originally call Amzoil. Penzoil objected to the Z in the name and Al switched it to an S.
 
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47,788
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Everson WA - Pacific NW USA
I think the Amsoil 5W-30 HDD or the 10W-30 ATM would be an ideal oil for Wa state. Redline is good, too. I would say go with the ATM if the price of the HDD or Redline take your breath away. BTW [Welcome!] fellow Washingtonian!
 
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425
quote:
heard redline is more for racing
Spooner, no offence, but if you don't know very much about these oils, how and why did you choose them OVER otc oils that carry the correct manufacturer specs? The ARx and dino oil...to me, what is the point? [I dont know]
 

Spooner

Thread starter
TSoA, Not too much offense taken [Smile] . How or why did I decide? I do know all about specifications and Quality assurance, I know when something "meets" a specification it only has to meet the minimum tolerance. In fact, I have a degree in quality assurance and specialize in non destructive examination of metals and flawed materials for automotive, aerospace, petrochem and military, but I am the first to admit that I don't know much AS far as oil. I am a newbie, but I do know enough to search for answers where people who DO know can answer some of my questions and I can model on their results. Judging from what I have learned on my own and what I have learned on this board I have arrived at Redline or Amsoil as slightly better quality oil. My choices were a) Depend on the Schuck's auto parts recommendation b) Invest in an education on motor oil c) seek knowledge and advice from knowledgable people. but mostly I thought the bottle was prettier than Mobil 1 [Smile] Bob
 
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425
In my area of specialty, I've seen more than a few 1.8ts choke to death on dino oil. Coked oil lines to the turbo, premature wear on the oil pump. I would not use dino oil, even for a flush on these engines. I would take the obvious path of a mfg-approved oil that was made for the car, rather than trying to outwit the engineers who designed the engine and lubricants by word-of-mouth advice on the internet. A quality Assurance Specialist should appreciate VW 505, 502, 503.01, what more could a person want in an oil? Certainly not an oil that doesn't even meet these specs! [I dont know] [ February 03, 2004, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: TSoA ]
 
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5,785
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Dixie
ALL the Amsoil formulations, with the exception of their XL-7500 Series, meet or exceed the VW 502/505 specifications. I have personally used them in three VW's and three Audi engines since 1980 and they work extremely well in these applications. I also have customers running Amsoil in VW/Audi, gas and diesel engines all across the US. In fact, if there are better lubes available in North America for use in these applications, I have not seen them. I will certainly defer to VW/Audi techs when it comes to mechanical work, but not when it comes to any and all lubrication related issues .... Tooslick www.lubedealer.com/dixie_synthetics
 

Spooner

Thread starter
Well, I don't want to get too heated up about my oil selection and I don't want to make any enemies. In my (humble) opinion however, it seems like many specifications that I deal with call out their "approved" products, even though other sometimes better products can and do exist that either have not been approved yet, did not have the marketshare to be included in the original spec or were slightly different in makeup and thus not listed in the same catagory. In the case of NDT oils (Penetrants), Mil-std specifications are written by committees who try not to upset any one entity and still work for all customers, (written very conservative). Qualified product lists are formed when the major product companies provide some samples sent in for testing by a military testing facility. Often some suppliers are overlooked or didn't know to pursue being included in the spec. This can even mean that they don't have the resources (money or personnel) to commit to the process, but still make a great oil. I also have to give some credibilty to what I am hearing about the experinces and UOA's on these oils like Redline and Amsoil. Sorry for the long post [Smile]
 
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130
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New York
Then why won't Amsoil submit them and get them certified? Talk is cheap. At some point they either have to put up or shut up. Why should anyone bother with Amsoil, when products that are at least equivalent, if not better, and have gone through the various certification processes, are available off the shelf for the same or lower prices? Sorry, I don't get it.
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick: ALL the Amsoil formulations, with the exception of their XL-7500 Series, meet or exceed the VW 502/505 specifications. Tooslick www.lubedealer.com/dixie_synthetics
 
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5,785
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Dixie
The process Amsoil uses to formulate their engine oils is very straight foward: 1) They purchase an "additive package" that has already met all the relevant API/ACEA/OEM specs when combined with a petroleum or synthetic basestock. 2) They work closely with their additive supplier - typically Lubrizol or Ethyl - to fortify the add pack even further to make it more suitable for extended drains. 3) They substitute a well characterized, PAO/Ester synthetic basestock for the basestock used in the test oil. (The quality of the Amsoil basestock is much better than what is used in industry standard, reference oils used in API sequence testing.) 4) They substitute a more expensive, shear stable VI modifier for the one used in the Sequence tests. 5) They bench and field test the formulations before releasing them, generally in cooperation with their additive suppliers, who are also interested in collecting this data. 6) They continue to monitor performance in the field through tens of thousands of annual oil analsis tests by their customers. Since Amsoil - and Redline for that matter - aren't constrained by API lincensing, they continue to "tweak" the formulations to further optimize their performance and typically upgrade their oils every 18-24 months. This is a very well thought out, systematic approach and has worked extremely well for over thirty years. There simply is no ROI to the API licensing program at this time. Amsoil does license their least expensive gas and diesel engine formulations, as much to make a point as anything else .... Tooslick Dixie Synthetics (256) 651-3590, cell
 
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130
Location
New York
If you notice, the first word in each of your bullet points is 'They', meaning Amsoil. The question comes if you don't trust 'They'. If they're doing the test they want done themselves, based on their own parameters, it would be pretty tough for them to look bad, no? In point of fact, I don't implicitly trust any of the companies. None of us REALLY know what's in the bottle, beyond what the companies tell us. As least with the lab certifications, there is some independent certification of performance. API is only the start. I like the ACEA certs better. B3 is a minimum, with A3 preferred. I know people have had good results with Amsoil. I also know that people have had good results with $.99 a quart dino (see the 150,000 mile check in thread that's being floating around lately). The dirty (clean?) little secret is that you can get good results, especially in normal use ranges with normal stress level engines, with pretty much anything, as long as you keep up at least minimally on your maintenance. However there are some oils that have higher levels of performance than others. Even if this level of performance is above what would impact on a any particular car owners use, that owner may be willing to pay extra for that performance. I think it's safe to say we have a fair number of those people on this board. That's fine. However, at least in my case, if I'm paying for that extra performance, I want to damn well KNOW I'm getting it (not just think I'm getting it because the manufacturer says I am). The independent certs give me that knowledge, at least as far as they go. The fact that Amsoil (and Redline, and all the other uncertified 'boutique' oils), won't get certified, especially in their 'better', $8 a liter products just makes me suspicious.
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick: The process Amsoil uses to formulate their engine oils is very straight foward: 1) They purchase an "additive package" that has already met all the relevant API/ACEA/OEM specs when combined with a petroleum or synthetic basestock. 2) They work closely with their additive supplier - typically Lubrizol or Ethyl - to fortify the add pack even further to make it more suitable for extended drains. 3) They substitute a well characterized, PAO/Ester synthetic basestock for the basestock used in the test oil. (The quality of the Amsoil basestock is much better than what is used in industry standard, reference oils used in API sequence testing.) 4) They substitute a more expensive, shear stable VI modifier for the one used in the Sequence tests. 5) They bench and field test the formulations before releasing them, generally in cooperation with their additive suppliers, who are also interested in collecting this data. 6) They continue to monitor performance in the field through tens of thousands of annual oil analsis tests by their customers. Since Amsoil - and Redline for that matter - aren't constrained by API lincensing, they continue to "tweak" the formulations to further optimize their performance and typically upgrade their oils every 18-24 months. This is a very well thought out, systematic approach and has worked extremely well for over thirty years. There simply is no ROI to the API licensing program at this time. Amsoil does license their least expensive gas and diesel engine formulations, as much to make a point as anything else .... Tooslick Dixie Synthetics (256) 651-3590, cell
 
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34,199
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South Jersey
MikeW, I can see where you are comming from but I think your wrong. Amsoil has been around for 30yrs. They only buy the best additives/basestocks. I can't prove that but the UOA's speak for themselves. I do think things like the 4ball wear are totally misleading and really shouldn't be used. I hate that test actually. The other tests are very expensive and the smaller companies won't pay for it. The API only limits the quality of oil in my opinion. I have no interest in saving mpg by sacrificing wear when it comes to oils.
 
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